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David Harshbarger

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Club de Golf Chapultepec
« on: February 23, 2017, 08:21:00 PM »
Is it just me or is the Club de Golf Chapultepec an overgrown tree-infested nightmare of a track?
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Brad Tufts

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Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2017, 09:49:42 AM »
After looking at all the pictures, it doesn't look as bad as I feared.

Yes, there are too many trees...yes, some of these holes will be pitch & putt at 7300 feet...but big tourneys have been held at Sahalee and Valderrama, both of which seem pretty claustrophobic.  Not a positive trend, but the results will be interesting to see.

#1 looks intriguing, especially considering 316 yards will be like 280y at elevation, which is a 3-wood for many of these guys.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2017, 10:04:38 AM »
At the risk of sounding ignorant, isn't shade at a premium in Mexico City? I'd think trees would be a sign of wealth and cherished beyond what our culture may understand.

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 10:16:26 PM »
At the risk of sounding ignorant, isn't shade at a premium in Mexico City? I'd think trees would be a sign of wealth and cherished beyond what our culture may understand.


Shade and water.  The city is sinking as the water table is depleted.  Maybe that will add more slope to the greens?


Interesting they have multiple greens and multiple tees on a number of holes.  #1 has 2 greens.  If the PGA utilizes those that would make the course more interesting.


Agree that course like Valderrama are a precedent, and hey, maybe claustrophobic courses are a style we should embrace!


Hadn't thought about the altitude.  Are we looking at Mexico City '68? Four rounds under 60?



The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Matthew Essig

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Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 06:25:48 PM »
After watching the tournament today, I can say it looks and feels 100% like a Mexican Sahalee.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 10:45:56 PM »
I like the fact that the questions this course asks of the player are different than the typical PGA tour venue. 

James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 10:58:45 PM »
The whole "not Trump, not Doral" thing seems to be losing.   Come on.

Matthew Essig

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Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 11:07:19 PM »
I like the fact that the questions this course asks of the player are different than the typical PGA tour venue.


This, and I like how there are different kinds of players all in the mix still.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 11:15:14 PM »
I find it more than interesting. Some guys are bombing drivers every hole (Rory) and other guys are hitting irons all the way around (Rickie). It's very unusual to see such a big disparity in strategy hole after hole — not left/right strategy, but long/short strategy (or horizontal strategy vs. vertical strategy, perhaps).


On some holes, shot-shaping is required in order to hit a driver. The greens seem legitimately tough and being above the hole is a problem, plus there are lots of putts with significant breaks.


Also, shots hit into the trees require creativity/escape skills and some luck — see Sergio, Justin Thomas' crazy shot for birdie, etc. Sometimes a high shot is required, sometimes low, sometimes a hook, sometimes a slice. I thought people might also like that the course isn't manicured to the degree of the usual ultra-pristine PGA Tour stop, too.


Additionally, while the course is 7,300 yards, it plays like 6,500 at most. Is there not some intrigue in a course that's essentially really, really short, yet I'm fairly certain has the highest first round leading score (-4) since the US Open at Oakmont?


When was the last time the players were tested in quite this manner?

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2017, 12:17:43 AM »
Matt Cohn

the players also seem to be having trouble with the sub 7 foot putts - they are not close to automatic this week.

I guess with have the typical US parkland course, with the occasional sea-change, and (this week) a tree-change.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2017, 08:12:07 AM »
I don't like the course but it takes me back to my youth when I played at Glendora Country Club, a tree lined RTJ Sr club in California.


I do like how the pros have to hit low shots out of trees. I liked how Justin Thomas made birdie with a punch shot.


I also noticed that the greens have grass problems, probably due to all of the shade. And because of the shade, they have to overwater the greens, which makes them dart boards. I was surprised the scores were not lower on the first day.

Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2017, 08:46:47 AM »
I didn’t much care for the look of the course:  smothered in trees, tiny greens, narrow corridors, etc.  I watch a bit a thought it was a good replacement for Doral.  I didn’t care for all of the watery courses on the Florida Swing.  I wondered who would want to play them?  Then I realized the right guys were playing them.  Let the pros play these places and the rest of us ordinary golfers can go to fun courses.

Steve Fekety

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2017, 10:45:54 AM »
After watching the tournament today, I can say it looks and feels 100% like a Mexican Sahalee.


I was thinking the exact same thing.  Par 3's looked very similar to Sahalee.

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 11:23:58 AM »
Course looks fun to me.   Nice to see something different. 


I suppose it doesn't set up so great for hickory foursome matches, yawn.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2017, 11:44:23 AM »
I love everything about this course...especially after the Waste Mgt and Honda on those two contrived, water infested, tourist trap, crap courses.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Brian Finn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2017, 12:00:40 PM »
I had never heard of the course before, so did a small bit of research. 

The course opened in 1921, having been designed by 1899 US Open winner Willie Smith, of Scotland, who had been working as the club professional at the Country Club of Mexico.  Willie died before the course was completed, so his brother Alex (US Open winner in 1906 and 1910) saw it through to completion.  Significant alterations were made to the course in 1972 by Percy Clifford (who designed many courses in Mexico), so today's course is quite different than the Smith brothers' design. 

They have hosted 14 Mexican Opens, with winners including Ben Crenshaw and Jay Haas.

Has anyone played the course, or been there?  I'm curious how it plays/looks vs. how it appears on tv.
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2017, 11:35:04 PM »
I like the tilted small greens. Seeing more short game variety. This is a course that seems to work very well.You need trees at that altitude. The sun will fry you.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2017, 10:04:27 AM »
I believe that Cortez defeated Moctezuma in a winner-take-all match.


#FakeNews
Coming in 2024
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~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Steve Salmen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2017, 12:34:55 PM »
Craig,


TPC Scottsdale is a perfectly fine golf course and an exciting venue for the WMO. I played it last year for the first time, after once walking it as a spectator. It exceeded my expectations and I very much look forward to a repeat play in two weeks.

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2017, 02:07:50 PM »
Now that I've had a chance to see some of the golf, and having learned more of the history of the course, I am a fan.


From a podcast on the fantasy strategy for Chapultepec, a Latin America tour pro said



  • One of the most memorable courses he's played in LA
  • Every green presents a different look coming in
  • Trees are a major influence on strategy
  • Players who excel at puts 7' will do well
  • Greens have numerous micro-features
On how to play the course and Mexico city golf:


  • Altitude over 7000'
  • Getting ball to move left or right is much harder
  • Temperatures range from moderate in the morning to hot in the afternoon
  • Ball flight distances can vary substantially as the temperatures change during the day
  • Some successful players attacked course by launching long high drives, allowing them to cut over trees
And on how course fits in to community
  • World's wealthiest man is a member
  • Course is surrounded by walls with armed guards pacing the tops
  • If you don't have a game, don't bother heading to the course
I'm enjoying watching the tournament for the reasons others stated.  So much variety in how players are attacking the course.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2017, 07:09:47 PM »
This tournament one again proves that trends are always taken a step or so too far. It's time we reconsider the extent of proper tree removal as a strategic crutch.

BCowan

Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2017, 07:23:32 PM »
John,


I knew u were going to post this. What if they have fans going the other 51 weeks of the year?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2017, 07:26:50 PM »
I play plenty of courses with tree strategy and no fans. Removing trees only makes a super look smarter.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2017, 10:03:00 PM »
The course is producing a good tournament. That is what makes for a successful venue.

Greg Taylor

Re: Club de Golf Chapultepec
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2017, 05:10:37 AM »
It's fun to watch how the pros handle the course and the escape shots out of trouble, witness Phil hitting right handed right into the a tree and still making par.


Might be tough the 18 handicapper but for the TV it's been great, and different.

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