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mike_malone

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 I have been told the grass blades get fat in the humidity. First, is that true?
If it is is there a device that can "dehumidify" greens?
AKA Mayday

Steve Lang

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2016, 10:11:43 PM »
 8)  errr, device, sort of like a solar flare on the sun?
     
 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 10:19:09 PM by Steve Lang »
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Kyle Harris

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2016, 05:43:38 AM »
Yes Mike Malone,

That's what fans do.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

mike_malone

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2016, 11:14:28 AM »
Kyle
I heard that but I see them as monstrosities. Why don't you invent something for mowers or rollers?
AKA Mayday

Kyle Harris

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2016, 12:16:23 PM »
Kyle
I heard that but I see them as monstrosities. Why don't you invent something for mowers or rollers?

You syringe to keep the turf canopy under 88 degrees F so the plant keeps the stoma open allowing moisture release. This is the difference between a cool-season and a warm-season turf.

Rig up a small hose to a large blower to blow a mist across the canopy, you get the drying effect of the fan coupled with the cooling effect of evaporation energy.

It's an art because too much water and the plant can't release the water/CO2 to cool itself.
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2016, 12:17:05 PM »
Kyle
I heard that but I see them as monstrosities. Why don't you invent something for mowers or rollers?


I'm loving me some Mayday.

Peter Galea

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2016, 09:53:40 PM »
At a GCSAA conference, Mike Hurdzan talked of his idea to design a "pop-up" similar to a sprinkler, that when activated would pop up and direct a rotating, downward stream of air on to the putting surface. 


My idea: Have a sensor to activate when the last person walked off the green.
Run a 30 second blast in between groups.
You could program it to blow leaves off of the green, by operating the correct bank of "air-heads."
Might be able to blow warm air to melt frost.
And...no more dew whipping.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 09:55:55 PM by Peter Galea »
"chief sherpa"

Sean_A

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2016, 05:16:02 AM »
I sense many people would rather play under a dome  ::)

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jerry Kluger

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2016, 06:29:26 AM »
My understanding is that you have to syringe rather than just watering when it is very hot and humid and temperature stays hot overnight - correct?

James Bennett

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2016, 07:08:11 AM »
Pete Galea

if you could get those fans to kick in 3 minutes after someone is first on the green, and then runs for 4 minutes, we would have quicker play!

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Jim_Coleman

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2016, 07:32:30 AM »
     Would someone with knowledge please answer Jerry's question.  Does watering (not syringing) greens on hot nights help or hurt?

Jerry Kluger

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2016, 09:09:03 AM »
Just to clarify - my question is when it is hot and humid and stays hot overnight should you limit yourself to syringing the greens and not watering at any time? This would be with respect to cool weather grasses such as bent.

Justin VanLanduit

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2016, 06:45:44 PM »
Jerry,
When it is hot and humid along with night time temps staying warm it is best to limit water.  At these times your goal is more to cool the plant vs actually watering it.  Excessive water can open up a whole other can of worms such as disease along with raising soil and canopy temperatures (never good for turf).  Like said previously the combination of a syringe along with a fan can drop surface tempertures 15 degrees or so; enough to let the plant "breath".

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 11:25:05 AM »
To answer the original two questions:


The plants can get puffy/fat during times of heat and humidity but it can vary a lot between courses and management - with some experiencing more than others. So it can be a factor. Usually it means that the turf will scalp when mowed, which will add extra stress at at a point of the year where there is a lot of stress anyways. If it happens it is a good indicator that it might be time to double down and get them through the summer.


There are tools that can help dehumidify greens like fans as mentioned and sub air type systems that blow air though the drainage and into the rootzones. The biggest tool is to try and get as much air into the rootzone as possible, via various non distrupive aerations like needletining. Topdressing can help also with the puffyness but adding sand in the heat of the summer may add more stress so is not always the correct solution.


To answer the thread title is a lot more involving. So much depends on the weather and the growing environment. For example in the MidAtlantic where the day time temperatures and humidity can get really high then then a cool season grass is just going to try to go dormant to survive. If there is a cooler summer where the temperatures stay in a range where cool season turf if happy then, in simple terms, they could be dried out and survive July and August. The location on a course can make a huge difference also as shaded pocketed greens may have issues whereas nearby greens that are in the open may be fine.


Generally greens are watered to a minimum (like Justin mentioned) as too much water causes more issues, but drying them beyond the wilt point will cause longer term damage and, if death occurs, an expended period of healing in the fall when they normally can be pushed without worry. Remember it's always easier to add water then remove it.


There are a lot of tools available to monitor water usage and provide a guideline of when/how much water is needed. However - from experience - there is still some art involved as these tools don't always take all the factors into consideration so blindly following them can cause issues.


Here are a few links that explain in more detail for those who are interested.


Blog post on syringing with pics showing the difference in temperature
http://ledgerockgcmaintenance.blogspot.com/2014/07/when-watering-isnt-watering.html


Some info on fans
http://ledgerockgcmaintenance.blogspot.com/2013/05/turf-fans.html


The end of this blog entry shows the difference fans make to rootzone temperature
http://ledgerockgcmaintenance.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-end-of-heat-wave-number-3.html


Lastly here are two USGA green section articles that may help


http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/2010s/2013/2013-06-28.pdf


http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/2000s/2006/060313.pdf



Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

John Kavanaugh

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Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: If greens are best when dry can we dry them out in July/August?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2016, 08:31:42 AM »
http://ledgerockgcmaintenance.blogspot.com/2013/05/turf-fans.html


Can't see the fans for the trees.


agreed - if only they were on the clubs property.......
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

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