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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« on: July 15, 2016, 06:28:56 PM »
thi is the way it should be done  by Brandel Chamblee

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/growing-game-how-golf-gets-wrong/

When I was new to golf the head professionals where I played, including Rives McBee, introduced me to the game, helped me get better and passed on their passion for playing. Before anyone had shot 63 in a major, McBee had a share of the record for lowest round in a major, a 64 that he shot in the 1966 U.S. Open at Olympic. He traveled with Lee Trevino early in their careers and he knew the game inside and out. Still does. As a head pro, McBee, along with Jerry Andrews and Lanny Turentine, wasn’t holed up in an office. He was on the putting green, the driving range or the golf course, showing people how to play, explaining this part of the grip or that part of the stance. If he wasn’t in one of those places, he could be found at the 19th hole, talking about the history of this game, its traditions and past greats. For McBee and Andrews and Turentine, these weren’t just characters out of books, they were people they knew personally.
These men weren’t trying to generate rounds, they were trying to generate interest. They weren’t trying to grow the game, they were trying to preserve the game.
In my mind, the golf professional is the most important person in golf, the link between the golfer and the game. But another link, one between golf courses and boardrooms and Wall Street, has fundamentally changed the golf professional’s job as “growing the game” has become golf’s highest priority.
I hear repeatedly that golf’s participation numbers are falling; that the millennials aren't interested in it and the 18- 30-year-old set that was, isn't anymore; that those who care about the future of golf should all work to “grow the game.”
Today, that means getting the golfer to the course at all costs. It means cutting the cost of the green fee and the salary of the golf professional. It means trying to make the game easier (15-inch cups), faster (9- to 12-hole rounds) or even completely different (Footgolf).
The downturn in golf's popularity – and this is not the first one - is not because it is expensive, not because it is too difficult, not because of anything other than the natural ebb and flow of the sport.
Golf has always been expensive. In the 1600s a golf ball, or a featherie as it was known then, cost the equivalent of $14. A surgeon in Great Britain in 1700 made roughly $75 a year. The game has always been expensive.
Golf didn't just suddenly become hard; it has driven people crazy for centuries. The difficulty of the game has always been a large part of its allure. The difficulty is offset by the passion that people have for it.
As I said, this isn’t the first downturn golf has experienced. The first one in the U.S. followed the boom that came from Francis Ouimet’s stunning upset of Ted Ray and Harry Vardon in the 1913 U.S. Open playoff and the heyday of Bobby Jones, climaxing in his Grand Slam of 1930. During this period, the number of USGA-affiliated clubs rose from 267 in 1910 to more than 1,100 in 1932.
Golf's growth abated in the 1930s for two primary reasons - the stock market collapse of 1929 and Jones’ retirement in 1930. This was a one-two punch to an expensive, star-driven game that was almost exactly duplicated by the circumstances of the economy's downturn in 2008 and Tiger Woods’ scandal in 2009. The only difference? In the 1930s nobody was suggesting a need to grow the game.
After World War II golf enjoyed slow, steady growth until Arnold Palmer burst onto the scene in the 1950s. Then the game grew like bacteria in a petri dish, which is to say parallel to his popularity. Aaron Sorkin couldn't have written this guy. Spielberg couldn't have directed him. He mesmerized man, woman and child with great manners and all manner of gesticulations on the way to heroic wins and tragic losses. He moved people, literally, to the golf course.
Where Palmer’s popularity grew over time, Woods’ was like a bowling ball dropping into a koi pond. By 2013 there were 10,600 USGA-affiliated golf courses. That number, however, was down from the previous few years, as was the number of players, which is why there is such a hullaballoo about needing to grow the game.
Golf used to be mostly a break-even business. Courses and the experience were designed for the enjoyment of players. Profits went back into the facilities. This began to change when conglomerates began taking over ownership and/or management of courses.
The fallout from this has changed golf more than anything else in its history. Somewhere in a board room there is a man or woman whose job is to look at spread sheets and figure out how to maximize profits, to generate more revenue by generating more rounds. The burden of doing this often falls on the golf professional, so instead of being out on the range as Rives McBee, Jerry Andrews, Lanny Turentine and their ilk used to be, golf professionals are instead huddled in their offices trying to figure out how to generate more rounds.
The goal shouldn’t be to grow the game at all costs, it should be to connect on a one-to-one level with each golfer or prospective golfer, to help them appreciate why it's worth taking the time to learn how to play. Pay the golf professionals more money because they are worth every penny and will make people want to play this game. In time there will be another star every bit as alluring as Tiger Woods, Arnold Palmer and Bobby Jones, and once again the game will grow.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 07:10:07 PM »
So Golf needs a Messiah?  If Michelle Wie was the dominant woman golfer, then more rounds by young women would be played?


My knowledge of marketing the game is limited.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 09:47:16 PM »
The same mentality that is driving the cost of higher education up so fast is also effecting golf, too much emphasis on infrastructure, headcount and rankings/status that have created an arms race.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Peter Pallotta

Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 09:56:25 PM »
A terrific line from a terrific movie, Cassavetes' The Killing of a Chinese Bookie:
"Marx said religion was the opiate of the peo....no, no -- it's money. It's money...."

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2016, 07:01:30 AM »
I spent a week in California golfing and surfing. Hanging out with some surfers, I would love to see golf follow their model:
  • Surfrider Foundation - Not for profit, grassroots, http://www.surfrider.org - The Surfrider Foundation protects much more than surfing waves (and you certainly don’t have to be a surfer to join!) but one thing remains the same: our founders were everyday people, like you and me, who took a stand because they loved their beach. Surfrider has built a network of coastal defenders who transform their passion for our coasts into lasting protection.  Over the last three decades we have a track record of more than 300 victories (since we started counting in 2006!).
  • World Surf League -  For-profit (I think) - http://www.worldsurfleague.com - The World Surf League organizes the annual tour of professional surf competitions and broadcasts each event live at WorldSurfLeague.com where you can experience the athleticism, drama and adventure of competitive surfing -- anywhere and anytime it's on.
The obvious difference is surfing is done on public land/sea versus golf which is mainly private land.

It goes back to the USGA, they are trying to do too many things, and they are not doing many well. Growing the game, running profession golf tournaments, running amateur tournaments, and protecting the game are in conflict with one another and the USGA can't do it all.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2016, 07:06:15 AM »
A terrific line from a terrific movie, Cassavetes' The Killing of a Chinese Bookie:
"Marx said religion was the opiate of the peo....no, no -- it's money. It's money...."


It's the money.  Brandel had it, but at the end there he felt the need to make the people the important part of his story.


People ask me all the time when golf development will make a real comeback.  I tell them they might as well ask me to predict the future of the economy, because it's when the economy is humming [the 1920's, the 1950's, the early 2000's] that people have free time and money to devote to golf, and developers are optimistic about building new courses.  Unfortunately, there are few signs that our economy is ready to boom again.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2016, 07:35:18 AM »
The business guys want to grow the game to line their pockets, to hit the middle and upper middle class and get as much of their disposable income as possible. Nothing wrong with that, I suppose but the problem is, the investment banks, mortgage corporations and real estate developers took all that money and there are no signs that it's coming back. The rich got richer, Wall Street had a bad year and Main Street will be hurt for decades. Golf growth is but one incidental casualty. Replicating Brandy's golf pro mentors is a nice romantic concept, but like most of his bloviating, it's  just hot air.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 07:38:39 AM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Joe Schackman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2016, 07:48:18 AM »
I'm skeptical of Tiger Woods actual impact on golf. He was fantastic for the professional game. The increase in purses on the PGA tour is incredible and every professional player owes Tiger.


But did he help the game of golf? I'm dubious. It's a nice idea but correlation does not necessarily mean causation. The golf boom of the early 2000's and the eventual decline (regression to the mean?) lines up pretty well with the boom and bust of our recent economy that I think the tiger narrative is overblown.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2016, 07:49:50 AM »
  I tell them they might as well ask me to predict the future of the economy, because it's when the economy is humming [the 1920's, the 1950's, the early 2000's] that people have free time and money to devote to golf, and developers are optimistic about building new courses.  Unfortunately, there are few signs that our economy is ready to boom again.


In the 1920's and 1950's people were coming home from the WW's and golf brought in many new players.



In the USA, the economy is not going to be the problem, if you look at this article on Bloomberg:


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-06-19/golf-loses-players-as-millennials-find-it-expensive-time-consuming





As a golf consumer, there has never been more options for memberships, tee times, golf trips, charity auctions.... The market got overbuilt and none of the "golf bodies" brought in new golfers and lost some old ones. An economy humming along at 3-5% is not going to fill that gap with new 18 hole "championship" courses, imo.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2016, 10:19:44 AM »
I've always looked to the saying "prestige does not spend" when I look at the entire golf business especially in golf design.  (just ask some of the associates dismissed from signature firms)   Put the right pros or operators running the courses that are never spoken of on this site and golf will grow.  And as TD says when the economy is right again the "prestige" places will start to shine again.  For now the golf mot of us play doesn't need to be known outside a 15 mile radius...and kids don't know enough to know they aren't playing the greatest golf course in the world at their age.. ;D ;D   
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Dave Doxey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2016, 11:28:28 AM »
 I believe that the increase in golfers during the last generation was due almost entirely to the fact that caddying introduced young people to the game.  They came to earn money, and while doing that were able to observe and learn the rules and protocol.  Also to learn the swing and to get into playing in a non-threatening environment with friends.

 
Think about what faces a person today who is interested in taking up the game:

 
- no clubs – have to buy them – new clubs are expensive – not sure what to buy (caddies had lots of clubs laying around to use and try)

 
- How to get started? - OK – what do I do to get started?  Lessons help, but walking on to a crowded course for a first round must be very intimidating.  A bad first experience ends it all.  Just  getting a tee time and signing up at the course is a mystery to newcomers. (caddies were able to play during off peak hours, and on caddy days. They could get pointers and help ad hoc, just by being around the course.  First rounds with fellow caddies were informal and fun.)

 
- Golf etiquette and protocol. - Unfamiliarity can cause embarrassment or make a new player uncomfortable or nervous.  (caddies learned on the job, and played initial rounds with other caddies)

 
- Initial rounds – So many new golfers quit after the first round or two.  Not being able to move the ball around the course, losing many balls, inability to negotiate hazards, and general embarrassment and bad experience end it all for new players.  (caddies played with caddies and early rounds were informal, special, and fun)

 
Almost everyone I associate with in golf caddied and thus got started with the game, as did I.  I cannot imagine every getting into the game otherwise.  I've tried to bring others into the game with mixed results.  Frustration, embarrassment, and bad early course experiences have caused most to give up.

 
The cart era ended the caddy opportunity, and we're seeing the resulting drop in new golfers.  It took almost a generation to happen, but I believe that this was this was the cause.

 
What can be done? There needs to be a focus at the course level on welcoming newcomers and creating an environment friendly to newcomers.  Some ideas/suggestions:

 
- Educate club staff on welcoming and encouraging newcomers.  Put up a sign encouraging new players to let the registration desk know.  Respond to such responses with information on club procedures and processes.  How to sign up, what the starter does,  what the ranger does,  how tee times work.  Some kind of FAQ.  Videos on the course web site for new players.  Let the ranger know about new players on the course and have him help, rather than harass, them.  Just be understanding and friendly.

 
- Target instruction for newcomers.  Market group and individual lessons, including on-course instruction.  Designate times when an instructor will walk the range and answer questions and help newcomers.  (this free help may help sell instruction!)

 
- Develop course-level programs for newcomers.    Set aside times for newcomers and perhaps run events like tournaments and leagues for new players. Create a comfortable environment for initial on-course rounds.

 
- Look at TopGolf as evidence – a friendly environment for those not familiar with the game.  No need to own clubs, to follow strange new rituals and protocols, no pressure to play well or fast.  A non-threatening fun environment.  With some creativity, a local course can be a bit more like this.

 

 

 

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2016, 12:04:54 PM »
No matter the business, when the MBAs start trying to make it about them, about the processes they devise and implement, instead of the people they empower, you get a disconnect.


Modern golf operations, especially at the public level, are driven by bean counters who use an analytical approach to try and create revenue.


I suppose there is nothing wrong with all that, but the analytical approach doesn't ever seem to fall under the same scrutiny as the "seat of the pants" or "personal touch" approach.


Probably a terrible analogy, but we see it in irrigation consulting where the default position is always a completely new system, and hardly ever a real evaluation of using parts of the existing while making improvements to the deficient or aging parts.  As if we are to believe that 100% of an existing system no longer has value and those guys 25 years ago had no hydraulic or engineering skills.  Analytically, we sell new systems by creating flow graphs and coverage maps detailing uniformity and try and use the absurd premise that more pump capacity, larger pipe used to move more water, and way more sprinklers guarantees less water use, as if no one with common sense can easily see that if you design a system to push more water than the old, you will use more water in most cases. Systems don't save water, people save water.


And national initiatives and programs don't bring more people to the game, nurturing an interest in the game is what attracts more golfers over the long run.


I have a serious disdain for all those, and there are many, that blame millennials for all that ails their business.  This painting millennials as lazy and lacking focus is the most easy way out for executives. Reminds me of a chef I once employed who when our restaurant numbers were crashing used the excuse of "the locals have no taste for real food", when what they really had was no taste for his food and he was too stubborn and proud to listen.   

Mark Pavy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2016, 12:23:31 AM »
thi is the way it should be done  by Brandel Chamblee

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/brandel-chamblee/growing-game-how-golf-gets-wrong/

When I was new to golf the head professionals where I played, including Rives McBee, introduced me to the game, helped me get better and passed on their passion for playing. Before anyone had shot 63 in a major, McBee had a share of the record for lowest round in a major, a 64 that he shot in the 1966 U.S. Open at Olympic. He traveled with Lee Trevino early in their careers and he knew the game inside and out. Still does. As a head pro, McBee, along with Jerry Andrews and Lanny Turentine, wasn’t holed up in an office. He was on the putting green, the driving range or the golf course, showing people how to play, explaining this part of the grip or that part of the stance. If he wasn’t in one of those places, he could be found at the 19th hole, talking about the history of this game, its traditions and past greats. For McBee and Andrews and Turentine, these weren’t just characters out of books, they were people they knew personally.
These men weren’t trying to generate rounds, they were trying to generate interest. They weren’t trying to grow the game, they were trying to preserve the game.
In my mind, the golf professional is the most important person in golf, the link between the golfer and the game. But another link, one between golf courses and boardrooms and Wall Street, has fundamentally changed the golf professional’s job as “growing the game” has become golf’s highest priority.
I hear repeatedly that golf’s participation numbers are falling; that the millennials aren't interested in it and the 18- 30-year-old set that was, isn't anymore; that those who care about the future of golf should all work to “grow the game.”
Today, that means getting the golfer to the course at all costs. It means cutting the cost of the green fee and the salary of the golf professional. It means trying to make the game easier (15-inch cups), faster (9- to 12-hole rounds) or even completely different (Footgolf).
The downturn in golf's popularity – and this is not the first one - is not because it is expensive, not because it is too difficult, not because of anything other than the natural ebb and flow of the sport.
Golf has always been expensive. In the 1600s a golf ball, or a featherie as it was known then, cost the equivalent of $14. A surgeon in Great Britain in 1700 made roughly $75 a year. The game has always been expensive.
Golf didn't just suddenly become hard; it has driven people crazy for centuries. The difficulty of the game has always been a large part of its allure. The difficulty is offset by the passion that people have for it.
As I said, this isn’t the first downturn golf has experienced. The first one in the U.S. followed the boom that came from Francis Ouimet’s stunning upset of Ted Ray and Harry Vardon in the 1913 U.S. Open playoff and the heyday of Bobby Jones, climaxing in his Grand Slam of 1930. During this period, the number of USGA-affiliated clubs rose from 267 in 1910 to more than 1,100 in 1932.
Golf's growth abated in the 1930s for two primary reasons - the stock market collapse of 1929 and Jones’ retirement in 1930. This was a one-two punch to an expensive, star-driven game that was almost exactly duplicated by the circumstances of the economy's downturn in 2008 and Tiger Woods’ scandal in 2009. The only difference? In the 1930s nobody was suggesting a need to grow the game.
After World War II golf enjoyed slow, steady growth until Arnold Palmer burst onto the scene in the 1950s. Then the game grew like bacteria in a petri dish, which is to say parallel to his popularity. Aaron Sorkin couldn't have written this guy. Spielberg couldn't have directed him. He mesmerized man, woman and child with great manners and all manner of gesticulations on the way to heroic wins and tragic losses. He moved people, literally, to the golf course.
Where Palmer’s popularity grew over time, Woods’ was like a bowling ball dropping into a koi pond. By 2013 there were 10,600 USGA-affiliated golf courses. That number, however, was down from the previous few years, as was the number of players, which is why there is such a hullaballoo about needing to grow the game.
Golf used to be mostly a break-even business. Courses and the experience were designed for the enjoyment of players. Profits went back into the facilities. This began to change when conglomerates began taking over ownership and/or management of courses.
The fallout from this has changed golf more than anything else in its history. Somewhere in a board room there is a man or woman whose job is to look at spread sheets and figure out how to maximize profits, to generate more revenue by generating more rounds. The burden of doing this often falls on the golf professional, so instead of being out on the range as Rives McBee, Jerry Andrews, Lanny Turentine and their ilk used to be, golf professionals are instead huddled in their offices trying to figure out how to generate more rounds.
The goal shouldn’t be to grow the game at all costs, it should be to connect on a one-to-one level with each golfer or prospective golfer, to help them appreciate why it's worth taking the time to learn how to play. Pay the golf professionals more money because they are worth every penny and will make people want to play this game. In time there will be another star every bit as alluring as Tiger Woods, Arnold Palmer and Bobby Jones, and once again the game will grow.

Good article that scratches the surface of the story of how we got to this point in time.

As a career Golf Professional, it's pretty clear in my mind where things went wrong.

I often ponder why this site is called Golf CLUB Atlas when it's about Architecture, Golf Courses, Overseas Trips, Top 100 courses and ratings- NOTHING AT ALL about a Golf Club and what it means to be a member of a Golf Club.

Building a golf course is wonderful, however, creating a Golf Club is much more important to the game.




Peter Pallotta

Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2016, 12:42:13 AM »
Wow, that's a very thought provoking and challenging last line, Mark -- and an observation/insight that I have never read before. Please consider making it the subject of a new thread, as it deserves to be noticed and discussed by smarter and more informed posters than me.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2016, 07:50:02 AM »
.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 08:15:41 AM by BCrosby »

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2016, 08:26:32 AM »


Good article that scratches the surface of the story of how we got to this point in time.

As a career Golf Professional, it's pretty clear in my mind where things went wrong.

I often ponder why this site is called Golf CLUB Atlas when it's about Architecture, Golf Courses, Overseas Trips, Top 100 courses and ratings- NOTHING AT ALL about a Golf Club and what it means to be a member of a Golf Club.

Building a golf course is wonderful, however, creating a Golf Club is much more important to the game.

Mark,
To repeat what Bob and Peter say....yes you are spot on...
I just wish there was another word to replace "Club"..  I have a public course and I can it a "....golf Club" instead of "....golf course" for that very reason.  IT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS PRIVATE..   So many sense that club means private and so often in glf that is right but growing up you saw "clubs" "gangs" or whatever you want to call them at small for profit clubs and munis regularly.    AND since you are a club professional( I assume from your statement) you probably know the biggest difference.  It was $$$$$.  And I don't mean $$$ the way it is often described when relating to golf.  It was as Brandel says in the article.  The club pro, whether at a muni or a private club so often had a stake in the game.  He would own the shop, he would own the carts and he had control of his environment.  Management companies and Club management took this away form the game.  When they did they replaced it with under qualified slapdicks( in many cases).  As an example...Bull Creek Golf Course in Columbus Georgia was a muni course.  Hugh Royer had the contract to operate it.  Hugh had won the Western Open on the tour and had become a club pro who was there talking to whomever, helping the kids and coaching the golf team.  When that is replaced with some guy that tell the girls in the bars each night he once hit a drive 400 yards on concrete and then shows up with an attitude toward the average golfer each day..."Houston we have a problem" kicks in. 
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2016, 08:38:11 PM »
Mark has it spot on. Too many clubs in the UK stopped being true members clubs run by members for members and became revenue generators that turned their members into clients. Yes clubs up until the late 1980's were often inefficiently run and run in a rather ad-hoc, amateurish fashion but they seemed to get by fine due to a great camaraderie and pride among the membership. Now, many of the same clubs are shiny, sleek, professionally run set ups with little of the feel of old and struggling to find a way forward.


Jon

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2016, 09:01:09 PM »
Jon

Did this not coincide with a glut of proprietary courses cropping up around lots of towns and a significant economic downturn and high unemployment?

Did the loyal members not get old and those younger who'd been treated badly and languishing on waiting lists change the landscape?

Was members clubs becoming more 'professional' not the response to the malaise rather than root cause of the malaise?

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2016, 10:11:17 PM »
Jon

Did this not coincide with a glut of proprietary courses cropping up around lots of towns and a significant economic downturn and high unemployment?

Did the loyal members not get old and those younger who'd been treated badly and languishing on waiting lists change the landscape?

Was members clubs becoming more 'professional' not the response to the malaise rather than root cause of the malaise?


No!!!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2016, 04:19:37 AM »
I don't necessarily think golf is gets wrong....golf is changing...especially at club level.  Golf clubs are a microcosm of society.  In the UK volunteering to help locally is way down with my generation. This aspect of modern life has crept into golf. Yes, there are many traditional clubs which have members doing important (and unimportant) voluntary work for clubs, but increasingly this aspect of clubs is giving way to letting the professionals handle the business of the club, the membership and the course.  Heck, there are a ton of courses which are founded on this idea.  "Members" pay and play without much invested in the fabric of the club.  I am probably a classic case of this...I naturally am not a clubby person.  I don't have much interest in hangin about clubhouses drinking and socializing with the same bunch of guys every week....or even playing with the same bunch of guys every week.  I think intentionally or not and for whatever reasons, this has become the norm for club memberships in the UK. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Pavy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2016, 05:07:02 AM »
I don't necessarily think golf is gets wrong....golf is changing...especially at club level.  Golf clubs are a microcosm of society.  In the UK volunteering to help locally is way down with my generation. This aspect of modern life has crept into golf. Yes, there are many traditional clubs which have members doing important (and unimportant) voluntary work for clubs, but increasingly this aspect of clubs is giving way to letting the professionals handle the business of the club, the membership and the course.  Heck, there are a ton of courses which are founded on this idea.  "Members" pay and play without much invested in the fabric of the club.  I am probably a classic case of this...I naturally am not a clubby person.  I don't have much interest in hangin about clubhouses drinking and socializing with the same bunch of guys every week....or even playing with the same bunch of guys every week.  I think intentionally or not and for whatever reasons, this has become the norm for club memberships in the UK. 


Ciao

So why do you play Golf?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2016, 05:32:42 AM »
I don't necessarily think golf is gets wrong....golf is changing...especially at club level.  Golf clubs are a microcosm of society.  In the UK volunteering to help locally is way down with my generation. This aspect of modern life has crept into golf. Yes, there are many traditional clubs which have members doing important (and unimportant) voluntary work for clubs, but increasingly this aspect of clubs is giving way to letting the professionals handle the business of the club, the membership and the course.  Heck, there are a ton of courses which are founded on this idea.  "Members" pay and play without much invested in the fabric of the club.  I am probably a classic case of this...I naturally am not a clubby person.  I don't have much interest in hangin about clubhouses drinking and socializing with the same bunch of guys every week....or even playing with the same bunch of guys every week.  I think intentionally or not and for whatever reasons, this has become the norm for club memberships in the UK. 


Ciao

So why do you play Golf?


Mark


I play for the fun of the game/enjoying the designs, socializing, excercise in lovely surroundings and a small element of competition.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2016, 06:38:45 AM »
I don't necessarily think golf is gets wrong....golf is changing...especially at club level.  Golf clubs are a microcosm of society.  In the UK volunteering to help locally is way down with my generation. This aspect of modern life has crept into golf. Yes, there are many traditional clubs which have members doing important (and unimportant) voluntary work for clubs, but increasingly this aspect of clubs is giving way to letting the professionals handle the business of the club, the membership and the course.  Heck, there are a ton of courses which are founded on this idea.  "Members" pay and play without much invested in the fabric of the club.  I am probably a classic case of this...I naturally am not a clubby person.  I don't have much interest in hangin about clubhouses drinking and socializing with the same bunch of guys every week....or even playing with the same bunch of guys every week.  I think intentionally or not and for whatever reasons, this has become the norm for club memberships in the UK. 


Ciao


+1

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2016, 07:34:11 AM »
Speaking of golf changing, I had a chat with a fellow member on Saturday who had just come back from Cailfornia and a game at Spyglass.  He was astonished when someone turned on a bluetooth speaker in the cart (he had never even seen a bluetooth speaker  ;D ) and started to play country music rather loudly.  Anyway, the chap stopped playing and looked around at the other guys with a puzzled look.  One of the Americans asked if they didn't have speakers in their carts in England.  My mate responded that we don't have carts!  The music was graciously turned off. 


Golf is indeed changing.  I have a feeling that by the time I fall off the twig it won't be a game which much interests me. 



Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

BCowan

Re: growing the game-how golf gets its wrong
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2016, 07:40:26 AM »
Speaking of golf changing, I had a chat with a fellow member on Saturday who had just come back from Cailfornia and a game at Spyglass.  He was astonished when someone turned on a bluetooth speaker in the cart (he had never even seen a bluetooth speaker  ;D ) and started to play country music rather loudly.  Anyway, the chap stopped playing and looked around at the other guys with a puzzled look.  One of the Americans asked if they didn't have speakers in their carts in England.  My mate responded that we don't have carts!  The music was graciously turned off. 


Golf is indeed changing.  I have a feeling that by the time I fall off the twig it won't be a game which much interests me. 



Ciao

Post of the year. 

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