How did Donald Ross "design" courses in the early part of the 20th century

[Andrew Buck]

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past, but I've often wondered how many of the old guys "designed" golf courses in the past when travel was certainly more difficult than it is today.  For this purpose I'd like to focus on Donald Ross, based on the number of courses credited to his name.  Obviously he has some designs, like #2 where he lived, refined and was intimately involved with all aspects, but I don't assume that was the case with most. 

For example, I know Exmoor and Skokie in the northern suburbs of Chicago claim Donald Ross extensively redesigned their current courses in 1914.  It would be my assumption, that Ross would take a trip to Chicago, see the sites, spend some time with topography maps and return home with the maps.  At that point, I assume he'd finalize the plans and send them back to the club for someone locally to carry out the plans.  Is this generally how things worked?  If a lot of detail exists in prior threads, I'd like to read them.

[Tom_Doak]

For example, I know Exmoor and Skokie in the northern suburbs of Chicago claim Donald Ross extensively redesigned their current courses in 1914.  It would be my assumption, that Ross would take a trip to Chicago, see the sites, spend some time with topography maps and return home with the maps.  At that point, I assume he'd finalize the plans and send them back to the club for someone locally to carry out the plans.  Is this generally how things worked?  If a lot of detail exists in prior threads, I'd like to read them.

Andrew:


Yes, that's generally how it worked, with these caveats:


1.  Ross for the second half of his career had a bunch of trained crews and project supervisors who built the courses he planned, and he relied on those people to build things to the plan.  [I don't know if this was the case in 1914, but certainly by 1920.]


2.  Ross built many courses clustered together in the same parts of the country [North Carolina, Mass., Rhode Island, Chicago, Detroit, upstate N.Y.], and to those places he was a regular visitor each year, so while he was planning one course he was probably checking in on the construction of two others.  He did not make as many or as frequent site visits as we are expected to make today, but one well-timed visit during construction would sort out a lot.  [This was not just confined to Ross, either ... MacKenzie and Alison did much the same thing.  I think Tillinghast spent a bit more time on his jobs, which is why there aren't as many.]

[Andrew Buck]

Thank you Tom.

[Phil Lipper]

I would be shocked if he actually visited the site of more than 60-70% of the courses he designed. It would be difficult to have done it with a private jet let alone steamship and train.

[Sven Nilsen]

I would be shocked if he actually visited the site of more than 60-70% of the courses he designed. It would be difficult to have done it with a private jet let alone steamship and train.

I'd suspect the number is higher than you think.  His work was fairly concentrated, as Tom mentioned above, and he traveled a ton.  Spending time in Rhode Island and North Carolina gave him solid home bases to get to many of his projects in the Northeast and the South.


That being said, I don't think many of his projects involved more than an initial site visit before turning it over to one of his associates to execute his plans.


Love to see someone put together a Ross timeline similar to what is out there for MacKenzie.

[Joe Bausch]

In 1914, Donald Ross was not exactly an A-list golf name. Harry Colt, after having met him and hanging out with him for a coupe of days, called the fine young man he had just met "Douglas" in a note to Old Elm Club.

Thanks for that funny story, Dan.

[Dan Moore]

I would be shocked if he actually visited the site of more than 60-70% of the courses he designed. It would be difficult to have done it with a private jet let alone steamship and train.

I'd suspect the number is higher than you think.  His work was fairly concentrated, as Tom mentioned above, and he traveled a ton.  Spending time in Rhode Island and North Carolina gave him solid home bases to get to many of his projects in the Northeast and the South.


That being said, I don't think many of his projects involved more than an initial site visit before turning it over to one of his associates to execute his plans.


Love to see someone put together a Ross timeline similar to what is out there for MacKenzie.

I believe your wish is about to come true. Chris Buie's new Classics of Golf Ross biography will have a detailed timeline.  Its available for pre-order here:

https://classicsofgolf.com/product/life-times-donald-ross/

[Sven Nilsen]

Dan:


Glad you took the bait.  Chris' book deserves all the publicity it can get.


Sven