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Mike_Young

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Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« on: April 07, 2016, 10:14:29 AM »
Should 11 and 12 be combined into a great par 5 and then a good par three from existing 13 tee and a potentially driveable par 4 from the upper turn on existing 13.  No more land would be needed.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

BShannon

Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2016, 10:23:29 AM »
This isn't funny.
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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2016, 10:32:22 AM »
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mark Pearce

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2016, 10:34:14 AM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on April 07, 2016, 10:32:22 AM
Quote from: BShannon on April 07, 2016, 10:23:29 AM
This isn't funny.
Who said it was?
To be fair the multiple grinning faces in the OP might suggest the OP poster thought it was....
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2016, 10:44:33 AM »
Quote from: Mark Pearce on April 07, 2016, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: Mike_Young on April 07, 2016, 10:32:22 AM
Quote from: BShannon on April 07, 2016, 10:23:29 AM
This isn't funny.
Who said it was?
To be fair the multiple grinning faces in the OP might suggest the OP poster thought it was....

That was to express a grin....I don't see it being any worse than some guy wanting to make 13 longer...that's what I'm saying...
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2016, 12:13:38 PM »
I would love to see #11 a par 5. And make 13 a par 4.
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Mr Hurricane

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2016, 12:39:21 PM »
I'm with Mike and Jim, this sounds terrific.... 

ANGC has already been mangled a ton by Fazio and RTJ....this would be an improvement.   :D ;D
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V. Kmetz

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2016, 01:16:17 PM »
...mangled? ..."mangled" more than destroying perhaps the most famous, most legendary hole and stretches of golf known?
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2016, 04:14:22 PM »
Quote from: V. Kmetz on April 07, 2016, 01:16:17 PM
...mangled? ..."mangled" more than destroying perhaps the most famous, most legendary hole and stretches of golf known?

Perhaps VK, while 12 might be a bit less than it was, 11 and 13 would likely be better!!

I vote for Mike Young to do the Restoration....errr Renovation!!   ;)
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Jim Nugent

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 04:35:19 PM »
You guys are pretty courageous, to destroy 13, what is often considered one of the world's top par 5 holes.  Would the new hybrid par 5 from 11 and 12 be a better hole than today's 13?   
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Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 04:51:40 PM »
Are any of these ideas worse than leveling the 11th green at TOC?
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I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Kalen Braley

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2016, 05:09:36 PM »
Quote from: Jim Nugent on April 07, 2016, 04:35:19 PM
You guys are pretty courageous, to destroy 13, what is often considered one of the world's top par 5 holes.  Would the new hybrid par 5 from 11 and 12 be a better hole than today's 13?   

Probably....but it'd still be pretty dang good.

And 13 as a short driveable 4 would certainly be a better par 4 than the Frankenstein hole that 11 has been turned into with the newish back tee.
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Mike_Young

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2016, 06:11:01 PM »
I'm thinking the new 11 would use the present 12 green site.  I think the elevations would allow for a couple of waterfalls and the creek could be rerouted back across the fairway at the desired spot...should be some great waterfall spots...
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jim Nugent

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2016, 06:28:17 PM »
I just saw how the hole would look to the player: Lowry was in the middle of the 11th fairway, and the TV showed the 11th green, with the 12th green in the distance.   I take it they would move the tee up a bit, and cut down some of those trees they planted on 11. 

Certainly cool looking, though I'd like you guys to explain how it makes the course better.  Odds of this ever happening seem to me somewhere between zero and none. 
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Mike_Young

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2016, 06:37:03 PM »
I'm just messing around and actually agree with VK on the area being sacred etc...

Seems to me if they don't like 13 all that needs to be done is move the tees to the left about 25 ft and refine the outside corner of the landing area.  It would make righthanders have to snap it to get around the corner and risk the creek in doing so.  And if it did not curve you would have the outside corner....I don't see length being the answer.  The issue is being able to turn that corner and get that turbo boost and then comes the sidehill stance.... :)
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2016, 06:44:31 PM »
No!
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Tim Weiman

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2016, 07:22:25 PM »
Yes, and I say make Mike Younger.
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Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2016, 09:41:53 PM »
A couple of things about this and similar threads going around...
1. I never know if the implied or ostensible critique is coming from... a desire to return things to an original Jones-Mackenzie ethos?... from how (JUST) the pros tackle the course for our public entertainment?... or whether its how the course/hole would play from the member tees?...The first spirit is never going to happen...the third intent is lacking info as to how the course is routinely experienced...the second one is the only one that would seem to matter, yet to me I have been thoroughly entertained by all these holes said to be, "in need of improvement."


2. Pine Valley and Augusta National have resided at the top of most BEST of lists since they first came out...I now completely understand why (beyond logistics or infrastructure) Pine Valley would be loathe to host a a recurring championship. Eventually, many of us with time on our hands would/will take a bulldozer to that fine course too...


Yet IF such a thing (inverting the "Par Perception" of 11 and 13) were to be humorously contemplated, why wouldn't moving the tee "another" 60 yards back in the (already-owned) woods be just as sound a remedy?


cheers
vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2016, 10:14:38 PM »
Quote from: V. Kmetz on April 07, 2016, 09:41:53 PM

Yet IF such a thing (inverting the "Par Perception" of 11 and 13) were to be humorously contemplated, why wouldn't moving the tee "another" 60 yards back in the (already-owned) woods be just as sound a remedy?


cheers
vk

I don't think there is 60 yards available on the property.
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

James Brown

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2016, 10:42:25 PM »
Quote from: Jim Franklin on April 07, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
I would love to see #11 a par 5. And make 13 a par 4.


Yeah, Augusta is such a dump...


REALLY?  Get real.  For 50+ years, since the end of the Eisenhower age, ANGC has been about one thing: The Masters.  The course is designed entirely for the pro game, which has little to do with classic architecture. 
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V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2016, 11:24:08 PM »
There may not be (60 yards) but IF the ANGC stewards were to take the LSD Mike is advertising, then that 60 yards would be cheaper and less disruptive than either the ACC property or blowing up the entirety of Amen Corner...


Of course, I think Mike's proposed routing is already used for the Turkey Shoot Masters they play on December 32nd each year.
 :o


cheers
vk
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"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2016, 04:11:57 AM »
They could just tilt the tee slightly downward and put a slight left to right fall on it so as to make the high flighted right to left shot extremely difficult.

Alternatively, dump the 18 hole course, build another 27 par 3 holes and just play 72 hole in one day ;D

Jon
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Thomas Dai

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2016, 04:18:18 AM »
Several ongoing ANGC threads at the moment and a point that can be made in just about all of them is..........roll-back the ball.....and not just roll it back a wee bit, roll it back a lot.
Atb
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2016, 04:23:30 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Dai on April 08, 2016, 04:18:18 AM
Several ongoing ANGC threads at the moment and a point that can be made in just about all of them is..........roll-back the ball.....and not just roll it back a wee bit, roll it back a lot.
Atb

+1 and ANGC is a place where the club could force this change and no one would push back.

Jon
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JESII

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Re: Should 11 be made into a 5 par instead of buying more land?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2016, 05:28:41 AM »
Yep...nobody would push back on that at all!?!

Why roll back the ball when the the true best answer is to flat out ignore what the pros shoot?

These guys have to hit cool, difficult shots all the way around the course...the guys that figure it out might be 20 under at weeks end, congratulations and move on...
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