[Wayne_Freedman]

As at many private clubs, we have members who refuse to speed up and would not know how even if they wanted to do so.


Now, our golf committee has decided to put some teeth into a pace of play program. We're looking at multiple measures which include ten minute intervals between starting times, penalizing slow players during tournaments, and monitoring/sending letters to the habituals who don't pick it up during the rest of the week.
We're talking synchronizing clocks within a four hour spread on the course, among other measures.
If they continue to play slowly, they may lose access to early tee times.


What has worked at your club?


How do we enforce this without offending members?


[size=78%]Suggestions?[/size]
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[/size][size=78%]Thanks. [/size]
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[/size][size=78%]w.  [/size]
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[John Kavanaugh]

First thing you need to do is figure out how to make the people who want to play in three hours be happy about playing in four.

[JMEvensky]

First thing you need to do is figure out how to make the people who want to play in three hours be happy about playing in four.

This has to rate top 3 on your funniest / most accurate response list.

[Wade Whitehead]

As at many private clubs, we have members who refuse to speed up and would not know how even if they wanted to do so.


Now, our golf committee has decided to put some teeth into a pace of play program. We're looking at multiple measures which include ten minute intervals between starting times, penalizing slow players during tournaments, and monitoring/sending letters to the habituals who don't pick it up during the rest of the week.
We're talking synchronizing clocks within a four hour spread on the course, among other measures.
If they continue to play slowly, they may lose access to early tee times.


What has worked at your club?


How do we enforce this without offending members?


[size=78%]Suggestions?[/size]

[size=78%]Thanks. [/size]

[size=78%]w.  [/size]

Wayne:

I played a club once that had clocks on five or six tee boxes during the round.  Clocks were set so that they displayed your starting time (if you were playing at an appropriate pace).  When we got to the sixth tee, the clock said 7:50.  We had the 8:05 starting time, so we knew we were running ahead of expected pace.

It's pretty easy to calibrate clocks for this kind of system and they are far easier to understand than a chart with expected time per hole.

Good luck implementing any timing or penalty system.  Without a pretty significant investment in human capital, it can be quite difficult to apply during competitive play.

John's right, though; are the members who want to improve pace of play moving around the course too quickly?

WW

[jeffwarne]

As at many private clubs, we have members who refuse to speed up and would not know how even if they wanted to do so.


Now, our golf committee has decided to put some teeth into a pace of play program. We're looking at multiple measures which include ten minute intervals between starting times, penalizing slow players during tournaments, and monitoring/sending letters to the habituals who don't pick it up during the rest of the week.
We're talking synchronizing clocks within a four hour spread on the course, among other measures.
If they continue to play slowly, they may lose access to early tee times.


What has worked at your club?


How do we enforce this without offending members?


[size=78%]Suggestions?[/size]

[size=78%]Thanks. [/size]

[size=78%]w.  [/size]

We as a society have nearly lost the ability to shame because people are so selfish they don't give a damn about anybody else.  Shame is critical to enforcing slow play.  Luckily, clubs are one of the last bastions of shame.  So you have a chance...



Oh, and NEVER officially agree to 4 hours as the goal. Once you do that, you get everybody thinking 4:05 is OK.

Bingo.
If 4 hours is the goal, and the first group plays in 4 hours, NO one after that can play in less, and there's a steady drip after that.
First groups are key and should be staged according to pace.
And playing at a slow pace and running through or skipping the last few holes doesn't help as the day is ruined already unless everyone wants to skip or rush the last few.
Has to be monitored early, and often.
and some 4 balls are serially incapable due to lack of ability, knowledge or indifference. (and they are always unaware they ARE the problem)
Contrary to popular belief, caddies can be a MAJOR source of slow play by providing what they call over "service" in search of a big tip, or fear of saying no to a needy member.

[Ronald Montesano]

Why stop there? Get those photos on Twitter, Snapchat a video or two out, put'em on Facebook and Instagram the transgressors to death. If that fails, take a page out of the Pete Dye book of a bell for his dad on every course. Pull the guys from their foursome and literally insert them into a portable stockade, then leave them there as two or three groups pass by, lowering their gaze, removing their caps and shaking their heads.


I've never belonged to a private club, so I cannot envision how business is conducted and how shaming is tolerated/encouraged within the walls. If a member is such a d-bag that he/she takes an early time, with full awareness that others will be held up behind because of his/her clip, I've got nothing.


I suspect that the level of "what we can get away with and what we cannot" balanced with "how important is coddling this member to our club" (I know how gross that reads) will give you the answer. Reality must be that some members can get away with murder because of their station in life, in the club. If that doesn't matter, both barrels!

[Thomas Dai]

Shame can work wonders.


At a private members club where I was a member many moons ago there were two guys known for being very slow players. A Captain had the idea of making them play in singles competitions as a 2-ball when everyone else played in 3-balls. The slowness issue solved itself pretty quickly (no pun intended).


Atb

[JJShanley]

And if you REALLY want to grow the game, you need to get rid of idiots like Peter Jacobsen and even Charlie Rymer agreeing with him when he announces the Drive Chip and Putt says:

 "I think it's great that all the kids have an elaborate pre-shot routine; I don't remember having an elaborate routine like that when I was a kid.  But that's the great instruction from their instructors that these kids are getting and I think it's great."

What a load of crap.  What an idiotic load of crap.

I suspect the parents have something to do with it as well.

[jeffwarne]

And if you REALLY want to grow the game, you need to get rid of idiots like Peter Jacobsen and even Charlie Rymer agreeing with him when he announces the Drive Chip and Putt says:

 "I think it's great that all the kids have an elaborate pre-shot routine; I don't remember having an elaborate routine like that when I was a kid.  But that's the great instruction from their instructors that these kids are getting and I think it's great." 

That's almost verbatim from 5 minutes ago.

What a load of crap.  What an idiotic load of crap - blathered at the exact same time they blather about "growing the game".   Little wonder the bozos who keep blathering about growing the game are incapable of doing so.

They are currently "Slowing" the game
Glorifying ridiculous preshot routines complete with 6-7 practice swings, cheater lines, resets, back of the hole looks etc.
I get it. This is a big deal to the kids.A once in a lifetime opportunity.
But these are practiced ROUTINES as in- They do it EVERY TIME.
Why the announcers seem compelled to glorify and encourage it is beyond me.
Praise the kids. Praise the event. Praise ANGC .Praise them all.


But please don't praise those routines. At least ignore them.

[John Cowden]

A tutorial conducted at each of the Club's playing groups--Sr. Men, Women 18/9 hole, Couples, etc.--as how to easily speed up.  It ain't hard, no shaming, just raise awareness and involve the player's peers.   Walk/drive ahead to your next shot, safely, of course, rather than wait at the next player's ball with him/her.  Ready golf on the tee; first one there, play!  Chat/joke on the move.  Plan ahead; place your bag/cart around green where the fewest steps/carting required.  Identify each foursome's fastest player or Alpha dog on the tee, and have the starter put him/her in charge of pace of play, with accounting at the turn, at the end, and throughout the round with course marshals.  And get your course marshal's to actually move 'em around, assuming the marshals know what they're doing.

[Dave McCollum]

We're public and don't really have that problem with the regulars.  It's tournaments and public play we have to keep moving.  At a club where slow players are known, control it with the tee sheet by putting them at the end of the line. 

[BHoover]

Regardless of what you may do to promote faster pace of play, you're always going to have people like the author of reply #1 who just don't care and think the rules don't apply to them (or he's drunk and also doesn't care). Public shaming might work in some cases, but probably not in this one.

[Tim_Weiman]

Has never been a problem when playing in Europe with Europeans on the golf course, partly because they almost always play match play, something Americans just aren't in to.


That aside, grumpy old men are no longer part of golf in America. It is a huge loss. They were the guys who taught young people how to move on a golf course. They treated young kids like second class citizens, but it achieved the objective. Kids learned. Kids learned to be sensitive to other people on the golf course.


Grumpy old men aren't just an endangered species, they are now extinct and golf in America is far worse off for it.

[John Cowden]

Tim, that is marvelous observation.   It's genius. 

[Wayne_Freedman]

Like

As at many private clubs, we have members who refuse to speed up and would not know how even if they wanted to do so.


Now, our golf committee has decided to put some teeth into a pace of play program. We're looking at multiple measures which include ten minute intervals between starting times, penalizing slow players during tournaments, and monitoring/sending letters to the habituals who don't pick it up during the rest of the week.
We're talking synchronizing clocks within a four hour spread on the course, among other measures.
If they continue to play slowly, they may lose access to early tee times.


What has worked at your club?


How do we enforce this without offending members?


[size=78%]Suggestions?[/size]

[size=78%]Thanks. [/size]

[size=78%]w.  [/size]

We as a society have nearly lost the ability to shame because people are so selfish they don't give a damn about anybody else.  Shame is critical to enforcing slow play.  Luckily, clubs are one of the last bastions of shame.  So you have a chance...

Lots of clubs post everybody's times and red flag the slow groups. I think that's worthless because it's  just names on the board.  You need to get personal - because slow play IS personal.

So I'd take it one step further and post the pictures of the "Slowpokes of the week"  both in the locker room and at the doors to the pro shop.  Use Western - style "Wanted" posters along with their times. 

Oh, and NEVER officially agree to 4 hours as the goal. Once you do that, you get everybody thinking 4:05 is OK.

[Wayne_Freedman]

I like the four hour part. 4:15 is too long, and it's easy to stretch that into 4:30 or 4:45.

As at many private clubs, we have members who refuse to speed up and would not know how even if they wanted to do so.


Now, our golf committee has decided to put some teeth into a pace of play program. We're looking at multiple measures which include ten minute intervals between starting times, penalizing slow players during tournaments, and monitoring/sending letters to the habituals who don't pick it up during the rest of the week.
We're talking synchronizing clocks within a four hour spread on the course, among other measures.
If they continue to play slowly, they may lose access to early tee times.


What has worked at your club?


How do we enforce this without offending members?


[size=78%]Suggestions?[/size]

[size=78%]Thanks. [/size]

[size=78%]w.  [/size]

We as a society have nearly lost the ability to shame because people are so selfish they don't give a damn about anybody else.  Shame is critical to enforcing slow play.  Luckily, clubs are one of the last bastions of shame.  So you have a chance...

Lots of clubs post everybody's times and red flag the slow groups. I think that's worthless because it's  just names on the board.  You need to get personal - because slow play IS personal.

So I'd take it one step further and post the pictures of the "Slowpokes of the week"  both in the locker room and at the doors to the pro shop.  Use Western - style "Wanted" posters along with their times. 

Oh, and NEVER officially agree to 4 hours as the goal. Once you do that, you get everybody thinking 4:05 is OK.

[Wayne_Freedman]

Very good, cogent response. Agree 100 percent.
Should be done with every new member. I put some of this into a video, but few watch it and fewer take it to heart. Thanks, John.

A tutorial conducted at each of the Club's playing groups--Sr. Men, Women 18/9 hole, Couples, etc.--as how to easily speed up.  It ain't hard, no shaming, just raise awareness and involve the player's peers.   Walk/drive ahead to your next shot, safely, of course, rather than wait at the next player's ball with him/her.  Ready golf on the tee; first one there, play!  Chat/joke on the move.  Plan ahead; place your bag/cart around green where the fewest steps/carting required.  Identify each foursome's fastest player or Alpha dog on the tee, and have the starter put him/her in charge of pace of play, with accounting at the turn, at the end, and throughout the round with course marshals.  And get your course marshal's to actually move 'em around, assuming the marshals know what they're doing.

[Dave August]

My club has a strict timing policy - 4:10 min for a foursome.


The pro shop keeps tabs on starting and finishing times. They then submit all play times to the golf committee. Slow players get a written warning. After a couple or a few letters, they are no longer permitted to play during peak hours.


Seems to work - although I am not on the golf committee, so I do not know the feedback from the slow members.

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,
A timely thread.  Here is what I suggested in an email to the "Heid-yins" at my club.   No response so far!!!!




"In regard to the the club's request for volunteer course marshals re slow play I have to think that the response will be minimal. I may be pessimistic in this regard but the duty is onerous, unrewarding and I believe fruitless. Members will resist being dragooned into faster play as slow play is a cultural problem.  In the past I have  sent an email to the captain  but naught came of it as he was not convinced that the low marker would take up the challenge that I posited.


The idea was as follows:
Each and every player is given a laminated card (which could fit snugly inside the score card wallet) with two or three dictums to speed up play. Now if the idea of individual laminated cards is too much of a stretch the dicta could be displayed in a suitably suave style (engraved on sandstone slabs!) on the first tee of each nine and the low marker can do his duty. The dicta would have to be thought through carefully and be pithy.


For example:
(1) Tee off when ready.
(2) Upon the green, mark/clean your ball once only.
(3) Once you begin to putt,  hole out.


Now the novel part of this plan is that the low marker is requested/obliged to chant these dicta on the first tee before play begins! If the low marker demurs it can be culturally and theatrically acceptable for other members of the group to rubbish him/her and then proceed with the incantation themselves.  All good fun, different, memorable and drives the message home!


I can understand that this may seem stupid and embarrassing for the low marker initially. However once it shows results in the game being shortened by 20-30 minutes the naysayers will be put to flight and this brilliant idea will be clasped to the bosom of every avid golfer.  The instigator, IGC's CEO, will be showered with golf balls and lauded throughout the Kingdom of Golf!


Just an idea ….  but 'tis novel, fun, measurable in its efficacy and can do no harm."


Cheers Colin

[Dave August]

Dave August:  every club is different, but the possible rub is: what if the guys on the committee are slow?  They've often are - because they're generally good players (and good players are the SLOWEST), and they're generally social guys that are generally at the club all the time and love it (or else they'd never be on the golf committee), so they are happy with the status quo, generally....

Thus , you run the risk that they will not enforce their own rules.

I can pretty much guarantee that if you look at any golf committee anywhere, at least one of the guys on that committee is deathly slow, at least by "4 hours is criminal" standards.  Often, more than that.

I think every club should appoint the nicest guy as the club at the speed czar and threaten to throw him out if he doesn't change his ways for the job. 

Well, you are correct! It turns out that one of the slowest players was the Golf Committee Chair. He has since been replaced, so maybe something will happen.

[Wade Whitehead]

In Houston, Jim Herman arrived on the 18th tee today in the lead, only to find three groups stacked up on the final hole of the tournament.

If the PGA Tour can't solve slow play, what chance does a committee have?

WW

[jeffwarne]

In Houston, Jim Herman arrived on the 18th tee today in the lead, only to find three groups stacked up on the final hole of the tournament.

If the PGA Tour can't solve slow play, what chance does a committee have?

WW

There was a 2 mph wind to discuss with the caddies.
They've got logos to peddle too

[Jerry Kluger]

My club has painted the sprinkler heads which does help speed up play as you don't spend time looking for them.  BTW: It is the same club that finally removed the 150 poles last year much to the distress of many of the members.  I feel it has had a dramatically positive effect on the courses and I have come to really enjoy one of our courses which in the past I never really liked.

[Jerry Kluger]

I should clarify my comment about painting the sprinkler heads - they are marked to the front middle and back and the painting is done on the grass around them not the heads themselves.

[James Brown]

Move all the tee boxes up one box but keep all the colors the same. 


Space the tee times out to 12 minutes.


Train the roving rangers to coach people along in a peasant way.


Identify the most common ball searching rough areas and do something to make them more playable. 

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