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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« on: February 29, 2016, 01:06:06 AM »
Hawaii was already covered in Volume 2 of The Confidential Guide, albeit not very thoroughly ... I think the four of us had only played a dozen courses in the islands altogether.  But I happened to have a free day in Hawaii today before heading back to the snow at home, and after a morning on the North Shore watching surfers get pounded in the Banzai Pipeline, I stopped through Ko'olau Golf Club, formerly known as the Hardest Golf Course in the World.


On a Sunday afternoon, the giant parking lot was full, but not because of golfers.  It turns out that after the course's original owners went bankrupt, the best use of their giant clubhouse was to convert it into the new home of the First Presbyterian Church of Honolulu, and the keys to the golf course went with it.  Having briefly attended Presbyterian Sunday school as a small boy, I will honor that affiliation by not swearing in my review of the course.


Ko'olau struggled financially from the get-go for three reasons:
   1.  It reportedly cost $82 million to build;
   2.  Its slope rating was off the charts, due to jungle surrounding the course and a lot of forced carries; and
   3.  It's cut out of a tropical rain forest, and the 80 to 100 inches of annual rainfall limits the conditioning and the attractiveness to golfers.


Genius business plan, am I right?  With the $82 million written off the books, the new managers only have to worry about the last two reasons above.


A friend of mine was in charge of the construction of the course, and now that I've seen it, I'm amazed he ever got it finished under the circumstances.


I would guess that they did not originally set out to build the hardest course in the world, but realized once they got into the project that it was going to be extremely difficult, and just figured they should go for the title of "most difficult," since "playable" was not in the cards.  At that point, they went a bit mad adding bunkers left and right, ostensibly to save balls from being lost in the jungle, but adding a lot of difficulty and time to the recovery play.  The new management has grassed over more than 50 bunkers from the original design.


Even with that, it's still a very difficult course, and it didn't appear to me to be the kind of difficult that would be fun.  I suppose you could play it with the "bombs away" mentality as long as you bring a bucket of balls -- they suggest you'll likely lose one ball for every stroke of your handicap!  But since I do not enjoy losing ten balls, it looked to me that I would have to play it extremely conservatively, hitting 4-wood on the tee shots to keep it in play, and possibly laying up on some of the forced-carry second shots if I hadn't hit a perfect drive, to avoid penalty strokes.  There are forced carries from the fairway at the 6th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 16th [which sports two of them], and the 18th, many of them longer than 100 yards, in addition to numerous carries from the tees.  In addition, with the rain forest growing back as rain forests do, many of the big carries must be made through narrow gaps in the jungle, as the maintenance crew has been severely short-handed.


So, for now there is no Doak Scale rating for Ko'olau, and I am grateful to God's mercy that I don't have to give it one.  I just don't have enough game to enjoy it.  And, from the looks of it, neither do 99.5% of other golfers.

Mark Pavy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 02:17:39 AM »
It's a shame that the thought of losing ten golf balls prevented you from playing. You might've lost 10, but I'd guarantee you would've found 20!!!!!

I played it 10 years ago, shot 74 with 2 lost balls and also noticed the "Hardest Golf Course in the World" tag line. I didn't have the heart to tell them that it wasn't!....... my local course at the time was 5 shots harder (Magenta Shores).

I thoroughly enjoyed the course and would recommend it to anyone looking for a great golfing experience.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 05:35:16 AM »

I thoroughly enjoyed the course and would recommend it to anyone looking for a great golfing experience.


That was ten years ago.  Unless you're a fan of muddy golf, you would not have found it such a great experience today.

Josh Stevens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 07:11:57 AM »
What did you shoot?

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 08:11:54 AM »
Sounds like the new Florida swing of the PGA Tour
ickkk

"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 08:29:16 AM »
Forget the golf and Banzai, did you catch The Eddie?
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 10:11:51 AM »
I played it in 2003 as a tag on to a business trip. The airlines lost my clubs on the way over, so I got reimbursed by the now defunct Aloha Airlines as my last carrier - an interesting sidebar in itself.


Anyway, I played with rentals, thought the view from the 13th tee (?) looking down on the town was among the better features, and thought the drop shot par 3 17th was ok. Maybe because I birdied it.


I, too, didn't think it was the hardest course in the world. The fairways seemed wide enough, but, yes, as TD notes, immediately beyond the cart path was dense vegetation from the tropical rain forest.


Other than those two points, I struggle to remember my round.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 10:30:24 AM »
In one of the great coincidences of my life, I happened to be in Hawaii on another design project (that never was realized on the ground) and went over there to tour construction.  Walked into the construction trailer and there was Dick Nugent himself.  I hadn't seen him in the 6-8 years since I had left his firm, so it was a nice day.

Dick always liked big and brawny courses, and this is probably his biggest and brawniest.  I could tell it would be hard, even in the dirt.  A bit later, Don Knott of RTJII explained to me (and I think it was lost on Dick at that time, too) that those elevated tee shots not only fly further, they fly further astray, and the fw need to be lots wider.

As to the drainage, I don't recall any details, but Dick did understand it well, but I am not sure you can size pipe to take the water away from those mountains paralleling many fairways.  He taught us the rational formula, a pipe sizing method that works for smaller watersheds, but tends to underestimate flows in bigger storms and larger watersheds.  He even used a thing called the "time of concentration" which figures all of the storm falls before every area of a watershed contributes to the catch basin.  To give an idea, he used to design golf course storm drains for a 5 year storm (at least 2" per hour, often raised by 2-4X for the TOC, explained above) one you would expect once every five years, on average)   A lot of architects don't size pipe at all, and Joe Finger, who had engineering training actually used to size his drain pipes for 0.25" per hour and let the rest pond.

Sometimes, those inlet and pipe sizes get cut for budget precisely because people are used to seeing (and don't like) large catch basins on golf courses.  That said, it was also after I left him that I came to the realization that you have to cut the water from those off well before it hits the fairway, on the path, or preferably in ditches next to the path.  It was not something I saw him do. In fact, he never went for the Pete Dye thing of a lot of fairway catch basins, he would only trap water where it was blocked by the design.  And, in the photos I can find on the internet, it doesn't appear that the paths are used as a drainage diverter, since they have no curbs, slope to the fw, etc.

BTW, Dick has had some health issues recently, uses a walker, etc.  Hard to see the previous generation of architects (including Pete Dye, who just celebrated his 90th, I think) hit old age.....because it means we're next.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Brett Wiesley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2016, 10:59:06 AM »
I had a similar experience at The Idaho Club near Sand Point, ID.  I emptied my bag!

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2016, 11:22:52 AM »
It's a shame that the thought of losing ten golf balls prevented you from playing. You might've lost 10, but I'd guarantee you would've found 20!!!!!

I played it 10 years ago, shot 74 with 2 lost balls and also noticed the "Hardest Golf Course in the World" tag line. I didn't have the heart to tell them that it wasn't!....... my local course at the time was 5 shots harder (Magenta Shores).

I thoroughly enjoyed the course and would recommend it to anyone looking for a great golfing experience.


Ha! I've played Ko'Olau a half dozen times and managed a 74 as well! It's really the "Hardest course in the world" for many golfers I'm sure, but the greens are easy to putt (albeit slow). I'm sure the average tour pro would tear it up with proper course knowledge.




While not the finest course I've ever played, I think the setting and adventurous nature of the course provide a lot of redeeming qualities. Also the chili and rice they used to serve at the halfway house was fantastic!

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2016, 12:33:24 PM »
Jeff


I won't pretend I understand half of what you said but nice post. Reinforces the point that building golf courses is first and foremost an engineering project and not a work of art. IMHO of course.


Niall

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2016, 12:35:37 PM »
Tom, thanks for the course review.  Jeff, thanks for the construction comments.  This is a course I've always been curious about and have been surprised how little it gets mentioned.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2016, 12:40:11 PM »
Sounds like the new Florida swing of the PGA Tour
ickkk


POTY
 ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2016, 12:56:01 PM »
I had a similar experience at The Idaho Club near Sand Point, ID.  I emptied my bag!

Brett,

Ditto, its easily the hardest course I've played...

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2016, 04:58:11 PM »
Jeff


I won't pretend I understand half of what you said but nice post. Reinforces the point that building golf courses is first and foremost an engineering project and not a work of art. IMHO of course.


Niall

Not all sites require engineering first, but many do, and this was probably one of them.  At worst, it is a first among equals, or as even the artistic architects would say, the devil is in the details.  Some great designs have been spoiled by poor drainage, and/or required constant additions.  You do have to engineer the design you want.

It sort of reminded me of a course I designed in Indonesia.  Also had 90-100" of rain per year, and when I designed the drainage system, pipe sizes came out really, really large.  They put in a few, but the contractor managed to convince them I was nuts, and got them to downsize all the pipes.

I got there on a site visit in monsoon season and watched as muddy flow over topped many catch basins near the paths designed to keep water off the fairway.  I mean, these inlets were 24" and 36" in diameter.  Contractor admitted to me he might have been wrong, but the lower design standards stood.  No matter to him, grow in was on a cost plus basis, as was added tiles, etc.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2016, 06:19:43 PM »
I played Kapalua Plantation about a year ago with 2 fellows who rented clubs and were given 6 balls each. I looked on weather.com and the wind was blowing at 35 mph with gusts to 40. After they lost those 12 balls they reached back into the storage area behind the seat in their cart and used the 2 baskets of range balls they had brought along.  30 lost balls apiece can really affect your score.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2016, 06:29:35 PM »
Given all the Joe Six Pack who insist on playing useless (for them) Pro V I at $48 per dozen or more, I call it the lost ball tax.  I really do figure the cost of lost balls into the green fee and the value thereof.  $75 dollar greens fee and another $100 for two dozen balls?

And I found a few dozen of the old Nike Power Soft at the PGA Tour store at an airport last week.  I recall Consumers Digest testing them and they had 99% of the performance of the Nike top ball.  I got them for $15 per dozen.  At 1/3 the price or less, I can put up with that 1% performance loss, but a lot of guys won't.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2016, 12:46:03 PM »
Jeff


I won't pretend I understand half of what you said but nice post. Reinforces the point that building golf courses is first and foremost an engineering project and not a work of art. IMHO of course.


Niall

Not all sites require engineering first, but many do, and this was probably one of them.  At worst, it is a first among equals, or as even the artistic architects would say, the devil is in the details.  Some great designs have been spoiled by poor drainage, and/or required constant additions.  You do have to engineer the design you want.

It sort of reminded me of a course I designed in Indonesia.  Also had 90-100" of rain per year, and when I designed the drainage system, pipe sizes came out really, really large.  They put in a few, but the contractor managed to convince them I was nuts, and got them to downsize all the pipes.

I got there on a site visit in monsoon season and watched as muddy flow over topped many catch basins near the paths designed to keep water off the fairway.  I mean, these inlets were 24" and 36" in diameter.  Contractor admitted to me he might have been wrong, but the lower design standards stood.  No matter to him, grow in was on a cost plus basis, as was added tiles, etc.

Indonesia... monsoons... Oh that must have been fun.

I spoke with Rusty mercer at Cuscowilla not long after it opened, and it was a rainy December. The white sand in the bunkers had that swirly cake look with orange swaths mixed with the white sand... He told me (to the best of my recollection) they were doing drainage on an as needed basis. They could have put in $500,000 worth during construction, but it may have been money wasted.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 12:47:51 PM by Tony Ristola »

John Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2016, 06:04:49 PM »
Tom -

Great post, as I played Ko'olau exactly one year ago and came away not quite knowing what to make of the course.  I was quite intrigued, though, and took a number of photos of it, in part wondering if it would make for a compelling (and different) course profile.

Yes, it is a severe and demanding course.  Yes, it gets an incredible amount of rain.  Yes, you need to ride in a cart.  Yes, I lost at least five balls (despite playing okay).  But . . . it was perhaps my most fun round of the year.  The setting and scenery are stunning (admittedly I am biased, as Oahu is my favorite place on the planet).  The difficulty was not from in-your-face long distances, so the challenges always seemed reasonable (e.g., as you note, most forced carry approaches are of a modest length).  The holes are appealing and not just hard.

I am eager to return and play again, to see if subsequent rounds would alter my view. 

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2016, 10:32:35 AM »
In college I played Crooked Stick in a 3 club wind and rain.  I had broke my driver the previous summet and could not replace it due to cost.  Emptied the bag around 14 trying to cut the dogleg and then I was borrowing range balls and ball hawking in the bushes. 
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2016, 01:57:31 PM »
Courses that are strewn with lost ball penalties should consider having balls at every tee, for purchase or otherwise.


And an architect who designs such a course does not truly understand the game, nor its lure.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2016, 02:04:15 PM »
One foot off the fairwAy on a jungle course is a sure lost ball; possibly a fatal snake bite if you are silly enough to look for it! People in the tropics love golf too!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2016, 03:55:42 PM »
One foot off the fairwAy on a jungle course is a sure lost ball; possibly a fatal snake bite if you are silly enough to look for it! People in the tropics love golf too!


Are there snakes in Hawaii?  ;)
 
I agree one should not go to Ko'Olau with ProV's in hand, and they're probably not necessary anyway as balls stop quickly on the ever-soft greens. The closest comparable course I can think of to Ko'Olau is Wolf Creek. Stunning setting and somewhat strange golf, but I think both are worth playing at least once for the experience. And for me at least, I returned to Ko'Olau multiple times as I did have a ton of fun safari-ing through the jungle.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0

Guy Nicholson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Course That Won't Make The Confidential Guide
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2016, 11:48:13 AM »
I played Ko'olau a few years back based on a single photo I saw in an old issue of Travel & Leisure Golf. While it was not the kind of game I want to repeat often, I still enjoyed it immensely. I lost a lot of old balls but hit some memorable shots. (Actually, any stroke that doesn't result in a lost ball is memorable at Ko'olau.)


The maintenance sounds like it's worse now, but I suspect the setting is still much the same. This was my version of the T&L photo.


DSCF1129 by Guynick, on Flickr

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