[Dan Herrmann]

We're having some challenges finding sand that has the right color for us.  Many vendors sell stuff that's so bright and white that you'll go blind on a sunny day.   Plus, the bright white sand just doesn't fit with the "vibe" of our golf course.


What are some vendors that sell sand that's more natural in color (a "sandy" color, at least the color of sand you see on the shores of the nearby Atlantic) and plays well?


PS - The bright white sand looks great at Augusta National, but we're not exactly ANGC

[Tom_Doak]

The choice of sand by clubs and by developers of new courses has gone so far over the top, it is insane.  I'm in Hawaii today and the club I'm visiting barges in their sand from The Philippines -- possibly from the very place where I've looked at building a golf course!  I've heard of bunker sand being delivered on train cars from Ohio to Florida, also.  It's not like there is no sand in Florida!

[Joe Hancock]

The " right" sand color is whatever is closest to the golf course, naturally. As usual, this will be a minority opinion, as golfers at your course will have the final say.

[BCowan]

The " right" sand color is whatever is closest to the golf course, naturally. As usual, this will be a minority opinion, as golfers at your course will have the final say.

Yes Joe!  I like a little dirt mixed in with my sand. 

[BHoover]

As a native Ohioan, I'm proud that our sand is so highly sought after. My club here in Minnesota trucked it in last fall for our new bunkers.

[Jon Wiggett]

Just get some from a local quarry.

[Terry Lavin]

This topic is right up there with the country club denim allergy and getting rid of the tennis courts. Guaranteed to alienate and unlikely to educate!

And, for the record, I love the white sand from Ohio. A little bright, but very playable, even for a chop player.

[Cliff Hamm]

Club in Florida is re-grassing with Celebration Bermuda and tiff eagle on the greens.  They expect the course to be closed  from May 1 until October 1. That sounds terribly optimistic. Anyone have experience?


 To the topic at hand,  bunkers are  being redone with G angle sand.  Have no idea of the color or playability. Anyone?

[Thomas Dai]

Another good reason for less sand bunkers and more grass bunkers.
Atb

[Mike_Young]

The choice of sand by clubs and by developers of new courses has gone so far over the top, it is insane.  I'm in Hawaii today and the club I'm visiting barges in their sand from The Philippines -- possibly from the very place where I've looked at building a golf course!  I've heard of bunker sand being delivered on train cars from Ohio to Florida, also.  It's not like there is no sand in Florida!

Agree..it is insane.  The "Ohio" sand  was once shipped to Costa Rica for a signature course...I think the first two rains changed all of that...

[Carl Rogers]

I don't know how often Lester George or Wade Whitehead are on line, but Ballyhack has some interesting brownish sand that does make for an interesting look.  I might have been told at some point where it came from, but forgot now.

[Lyndell Young]

Closest river sand that will meet proper specs.

[Wade Whitehead]

I don't know how often Lester George or Wade Whitehead are on line, but Ballyhack has some interesting brownish sand that does make for an interesting look.  I might have been told at some point where it came from, but forgot now.

Carl,

I'll let Lester give more detail, but it's a river sand.  White sand at Ballyhack would make no sense whatsoever.  The material they selected provides the perfect contrast without looking artificial and absolutely contributes to the difficulty of the hazards it inhabits.

WW

[Tom Allen]

Because Brian, a native Ohioan also commented, I will as well (native and current).

I wish more courses in Ohio would inject more sand into their fairways.  Our heavy clay soil seems to be a killer for firm and fast conditions (unless you have the funds to convert it to some non-native mix).

Best sand I ever played on:  Oakland Hills, in Michigan.  Had to be from somewhere else, though--Michigan probably is not importing a lot of stuff from Ohio (at least football-wise). 

[jeffwarne]

What fascinates me is that sand evidently is "best" if consistent and easy to play from (at great expense) and we also spend large amounts to make our fairways super tightly cut and unplayable

[Tom_Doak]

What fascinates me is that sand evidently is "best" if consistent and easy to play from (at great expense) and we also spend large amounts to make our fairways super tightly cut and unplayable

Doesn't it make perfect sense that you would want the hazards to play perfectly and the fairways and greens to be super-difficult?  Oh, wait ...


Golf is full of that sort of stuff.  The same club members who tell me that taking down a tree or expanding a green will make the course "too easy" will turn right around the next minute and tell me that restoring a cross bunker would make the course "too difficult".

[Ian Mackenzie]

We went through a "sand exercise" three years ago after we decided to redo our bunkers.


Logical debate topics:


1. White v. "brown"
2. Current sand vs. new sand


So, we ordered one ton of white (I think it was called "Tour Angle") and a ton of "darker sand" (perhaps called "Deep Face Wapaca??").
We placed them in piles at the end of our driving range and then also placed a pile of our current sand so we had three piles in a row.


It was mid-April. The following week it rained very, very hard. WE came back to the club and saw the sand piles. The two new types were unfazed and the sand pile was still a nice tall pyramid. However, as for our current sand....well, it was no longer a pile, but a huge mud pie that had oozed all over and, instead of a 8' pile, there was a one foot deep, 20' wide quagmire.


We have an old course and our architect recommended the darker sand that is also used by some well-regarded local clubs. My personal opinion is that bright white sand on older (Golden Era) courses is like putting lipstick and make-up on a  grande dame. Makes her look like a hooker...;-)

[Dan Herrmann]

Ian - that's it exactly.  The bright white sand doesn't look good outside of Augusta


PS - Tom Doak - Yeah, a bunker is a hazard and sure doesn't need to be "fair", whatever the heck that means!

[Jeff_Brauer]

As to color, one thing to keep in mind that all sands get darker over time as wind blows in dust, etc.  That bright white will be less so in just a few years time if that's the best way to go.  Sometimes it even goes rust if you have iron in your water, etc.  So, you can figure you go whiter to make up for it, or that white sand is a total waste if its going to brown out anyway.  I have seen the call go both ways.

A lot depends on your area.  Up in MN, as Brian probably found out the native sands are very dark brown.  Frankly, it does look pretty bad.  I (and probably most golfers) don't mind a nice light buff, which was never a problem to find in either Chicago or most places here in TX.  However, all my MN courses have imported Best Sand from Ohio. We did find a cheaper white sand in NW Wisconsin for the Quarry, but it caused buried lies and they are now out of business anyway (at least I couldn't find them when I tried a few years ago when we started Superior National)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian - that's it exactly.  The bright white sand doesn't look good outside of Augusta


PS - Tom Doak - Yeah, a bunker is a hazard and sure doesn't need to be "fair", whatever the heck that means!

Just my (amateur) opinion....



I think white sand for sure has its place.
Newer courses, courses that are on TV, courses in warmer climates.


But, every time i see a Golden Era course with white sand, I cringe.
Plus, when you enter a white sand bunker in July in the Midwest or east coast, it's like entering a convection oven....

[MClutterbuck]

As many have stated, getting the closest river sand that meets specs is normally the best way to go. It is environmentally sound, and financially sound. If somebody questions the color, you can easily explain the rationale.


When explained, I think it is difficult to criticize sand for being too dark. On the other hand, as Jeff said, if the sand is too bright, it will get darker in a couple of seasons.


And then, other odd things can happen. We selected the closest sand which was also being used at a nearby Nicklaus course. Color seemed fine on the course. When the sand started arriving and placed in our bunkers, it was too white and bright for my liking, but many people were happy with the color. I was trying to figure out how many winters we would need for it too darken and appear more natural, when they got fixed in a few hours with a few inches of volcanic material from the nearby eruption. Quite dramatic and stressfull at that time, but final result is great.


BEFORE



DURING COLOR IMPROVEMENT


AFTER CLEANUP

[Jon Wiggett]

Ian - that's it exactly.  The bright white sand doesn't look good outside of Augusta

But, every time i see a Golden Era course with white sand, I cringe.

Like when you see the golden era course course ANGC 

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ian - that's it exactly.  The bright white sand doesn't look good outside of Augusta

But, every time i see a Golden Era course with white sand, I cringe.

Like when you see the golden era course course ANGC 

Ah, another guy who comments without treading all the posts....


Like when someone says white sand looks good in warm weather climate courses and courses that are on TV. (Better contrast on screen.)


ANGC? Check, check.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ian - that's it exactly.  The bright white sand doesn't look good outside of Augusta

But, every time i see a Golden Era course with white sand, I cringe.

Like when you see the golden era course course ANGC 

Ah, another guy who comments without treading all the posts....


Like when someone says white sand looks good in warm weather climate courses and courses that are on TV. (Better contrast on screen.)


ANGC? Check, check.

 

[Thomas Dai]

MC,


Interesting second photo. I recall you mentioning this a while back. Must have been very frustrating. How deep was the material and how did you deal with it once it was on the ground and did it have any adverse effects (non-immediate conditioning wise, blockages, machinery damage etc)?


From the other two photos the course seems to have really come on in comparison to photos previously posted, or have I missed something along the way?


Atb

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