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V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2016, 07:21:01 PM »
Quote from: RussBaribault on March 02, 2016, 12:10:38 PM
I just can't understand this anymore. This us supposed to be a website about golf course architecture and yet again I am seeing more posts about Trump. These post directly and indirectly bleed contempt for the man and, for the most part, are negative.  If you can't check your politics at the door there are plenty of liberals sits you can post your hate Trump stuff on.


like here:                               


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ


(disclaimer: I did nothing but post this, because I think it's funny and cogent and sums up my views, which needed voice since RB thinks I've been spoken for and represented in such threads. I disagree. Furthermore, YOU cho(o)se to watch it for however long you watch it. If it inflames any to answer, it's not me who made it so. My disclaimer ends by saying, "I'll let you know when it gets political regarding Trump...")

Indeed, I'm/We are STILL on how he has been a deleterious, opportunist douchebag as a GOLF developer, long before he made his opinions known on the Mexican wall. That debate, that criticism is still quite germane to GCA and GCA-related concerns. Overblown project costs and eyesore masonry within steps of greens, 200 yard distances between some tees and greens, faux waterfalls, and blind island greens at the base of some of those waterfalls, membership deals and cost structure that are changed like valets on Saturday nights, costly lawsuits against opposition groups and near-bribery of local, national golf entities to endorse and co-promote the splendor and Fantasia of it all...Almost every single appreciable movement to sustainable, minimalist, nature-revealed golf design of the last 25 years, his projects has either been in notable contrast to, or the opposite pole of decay from which the movement itself partially sprang.

Take it up with him, that he went and ran for our highest office. I'm still talking about my disdain for his golf projects...but that's just me.

I was through making the spreadsheet comparison between Adolf Hitler and he, by September last year...
(that's a lol)

cheers

vk

Logged
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2016, 07:26:46 PM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on March 02, 2016, 06:10:00 PM
I heard just yesterday that there are giant renovations in the works. I have no idea if that is true


But no major work since the structure and name change?


Yeah CL, that's why I asked because I heard those same things almost from the get-go when some of the Ritz board members related to me just before the acquisition, I played the Ritz once or twice through their grace and I sort of liked what was there...wasn't that almost 3 years ago now, or more recent, I cannot remember.


cheers


vk
Logged
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2016, 06:01:43 AM »
I for one, look forward to a Trump Presidency...warts and all, say what you want about him, he might just become, a real game changer and I'll take a very successful business guy over Hilary, who should be wearing an Orange outfit behind bars.
Logged
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

goldj

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2016, 01:15:28 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Kluger on February 29, 2016, 10:41:50 PM
I saw the Donald on some show and he made that statement but I can't remember where it was.

Yes, I saw that too.  I believe that it was on a Golf Channel series focused on Trump and golf which aired a few years ago.  If I'm not mistaken, he said that all of his clubs were "full".  That, apparently, is not the case.
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RussBaribault

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2016, 10:57:17 AM »
I don't need some foreign comedian Jon Lebowitz copycat video to teach me anything about Trump or politics. The fact you would even link to that or even use that in any way to form an opinion on the man shows how little we should value your opinion on Trump politically.

Post after post, for the most part, attack Trumps courses yet all the haters who shoot spit balls at him haven't lifted a finger to do anything in reference to building or buying a golf course. These armchair architects are just hollow and have no worth. If you don't like his courses...don't join his clubs or pay the daily fees he charges to play.

I will say this.....all the hates would be lining up waiting for the gates to open if they were to get a free round of golf. None would not go to play a round for free on on principle. 


Quote from: V. Kmetz on March 02, 2016, 07:21:01 PM
Quote from: RussBaribault on March 02, 2016, 12:10:38 PM
I just can't understand this anymore. This us supposed to be a website about golf course architecture and yet again I am seeing more posts about Trump. These post directly and indirectly bleed contempt for the man and, for the most part, are negative.  If you can't check your politics at the door there are plenty of liberals sits you can post your hate Trump stuff on.


like here:                               


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ


(disclaimer: I did nothing but post this, because I think it's funny and cogent and sums up my views, which needed voice since RB thinks I've been spoken for and represented in such threads. I disagree. Furthermore, YOU cho(o)se to watch it for however long you watch it. If it inflames any to answer, it's not me who made it so. My disclaimer ends by saying, "I'll let you know when it gets political regarding Trump...")

Indeed, I'm/We are STILL on how he has been a deleterious, opportunist douchebag as a GOLF developer, long before he made his opinions known on the Mexican wall. That debate, that criticism is still quite germane to GCA and GCA-related concerns. Overblown project costs and eyesore masonry within steps of greens, 200 yard distances between some tees and greens, faux waterfalls,and blind island greens at the base of some of those waterfalls, membership deals and cost structure that are changed like valets on Saturday nights, costly lawsuits against opposition groups and near-bribery of local, national golf entities to endorse and co-promote the splendor and Fantasia of it all...Almost every single appreciable movement to sustainable, minimalist, nature-revealed golf design of the last 25 years, his projects has either been in notable contrast to, or the opposite pole of decay from which the movement itself partially sprang.

Take it up with him, that he went and ran for our highest office. I'm still talking about my disdain for his golf projects...but that's just me.

I was through making the spreadsheet comparison between Adolf Hitler and he, by September last year...
(that's a lol)

cheers

vk
Logged
“Greatness courts failure, Romeo.”

“You may be right boss, but you know what, sometimes par is good enough to win”

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2016, 03:00:28 PM »
Quote from: RussBaribault on March 04, 2016, 10:57:17 AM
I don't need some foreign comedian Jon Lebowitz copycat video to teach me anything about Trump or politics. The fact you would even link to that or even use that in any way to form an opinion on the man shows how little we should value your opinion on Trump politically.

Post after post, for the most part, attack Trumps courses yet all the haters who shoot spit balls at him haven't lifted a finger to do anything in reference to building or buying a golf course. These armchair architects are just hollow and have no worth. If you don't like his courses...don't join his clubs or pay the daily fees he charges to play.

I will say this.....all the hates would be lining up waiting for the gates to open if they were to get a free round of golf. None would not go to play a round for free on on principle. 


Quote from: V. Kmetz on March 02, 2016, 07:21:01 PM
Quote from: RussBaribault on March 02, 2016, 12:10:38 PM
I just can't understand this anymore. This us supposed to be a website about golf course architecture and yet again I am seeing more posts about Trump. These post directly and indirectly bleed contempt for the man and, for the most part, are negative.  If you can't check your politics at the door there are plenty of liberals sits you can post your hate Trump stuff on.


like here:                               


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ


(disclaimer: I did nothing but post this, because I think it's funny and cogent and sums up my views, which needed voice since RB thinks I've been spoken for and represented in such threads. I disagree. Furthermore, YOU cho(o)se to watch it for however long you watch it. If it inflames any to answer, it's not me who made it so. My disclaimer ends by saying, "I'll let you know when it gets political regarding Trump...")

Indeed, I'm/We are STILL on how he has been a deleterious, opportunist douchebag as a GOLF developer, long before he made his opinions known on the Mexican wall. That debate, that criticism is still quite germane to GCA and GCA-related concerns. Overblown project costs and eyesore masonry within steps of greens, 200 yard distances between some tees and greens, faux waterfalls,and blind island greens at the base of some of those waterfalls, membership deals and cost structure that are changed like valets on Saturday nights, costly lawsuits against opposition groups and near-bribery of local, national golf entities to endorse and co-promote the splendor and Fantasia of it all...Almost every single appreciable movement to sustainable, minimalist, nature-revealed golf design of the last 25 years, his projects has either been in notable contrast to, or the opposite pole of decay from which the movement itself partially sprang.

Take it up with him, that he went and ran for our highest office. I'm still talking about my disdain for his golf projects...but that's just me.

I was through making the spreadsheet comparison between Adolf Hitler and he, by September last year...
(that's a lol)

cheers

vk

Russ,

I agree with you that this site should be about golf and GCA as most of the posts have been in this thread. I have noticed that despite your deriding people for not posting about golf related topics your own posts have lacked any real connection with golf. Now you are pointing the finger hinting others should not post if they have never put their own money into buying/building golf courses so this begs the question what golf courses have you built/bought with your own money to justify you commenting on this thread?

I would point out that I do not have any opinion on whether any candidate is suitable or not for becoming president the same as I was not phased by the last being elected using a slogan penned for a character from TV show for 3-8 year old children.

Jon
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Rhydian Lewis

Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2016, 11:20:02 AM »
No comment on anything political, but I can state categorically that shortly after Trump bought the old Ritz Carlton at Jupiter, Florida, there was some siginificant bunker renovation work, the company that I co-founded worked with Nicklaus Design to renovate and build 19 synthetic sod wall bunkers, the first course in the US to do so.

Chris Cockrane (Nicklaus Design) was involved and we worked closely with Clay Batson (Coure Super) Chris and others in Summer 2012 to bring this project to life. I would post some photo's but I keep getting an error message every time I try to attach pics (JPEG) so if anyone can help with that I'd gratefully post some of the works carried out.

The irony here (I did say I wouldn't make political comment and yet I ail close to the breeze) is that the crew we worked with at Trump National, Jupiter, from Superior Golf were almost exclusively Mexican!! I've worked with other Mexican crews on other project since (Tennessee National, Tiburon at the Ritz Carlton, Naples) and I've never seen a harder working or better group of guys in terms of golf course construction, in my life. Those guys were machines (though as a brit in the heat of Florida, I balanced the scales a little!!).

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Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2016, 12:08:21 PM »
I played there last fall and was struck by the revetted bunkers - they seemed well-done but I wondered if they were out of place in south Florida - are there other courses using revetted bunkers down there?
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Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2016, 12:12:25 PM »
The Medalist put several in this past summer during their full renovation....they look good and fit the golf course.
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Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2016, 09:43:21 PM »
Quote from: Dean Stokes on March 05, 2016, 12:12:25 PM
The Medalist put several in this past summer during their full renovation....they look good and fit the golf course.


I agree.  I don't know what Medalist was like before, but I thought the revetted bunkers looked very good and really worked. 
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Chris Shaida

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2016, 04:34:46 PM »
Strictly ON topic and in reply to VK's question:


after acquisition the green's were re-grassed with very modest changes and around 15 bunkers (mentioned above) were turned into revetted (sp?) bunkers and slightly changed.  this spring ALL of the fairways and rough are being re-grassed.  I don't believe any material changes are being executed other than the re-grassing.
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2016, 12:59:49 AM »
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2016, 11:18:57 AM »
Maybe a  dumb question, but shouldn't the club hold the initiation fees in a separate account so that they can always pay people back when they leave? Wait....that actually sounds "responsible." It appears that all of the initiation fee monies have been used "elsewhere" and it is a sham. Sounds like a poor business model akin to a ponzi scheme!
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Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2016, 11:42:49 AM »
Quote from: Richard Hetzel on June 10, 2016, 11:18:57 AM
Maybe a  dumb question, but shouldn't the club hold the initiation fees in a separate account so that they can always pay people back when they leave? Wait....that actually sounds "responsible." It appears that all of the initiation fee monies have been used "elsewhere" and it is a sham. Sounds like a poor business model akin to a ponzi scheme!

What's the point of charging equity if you can't use the cash?  Interest?  That'll buy you a box of ProVs these days.  I remember when a buddy of mine said he only joined equity clubs so he could get his money back...it's called equity for a reason...gotta give Russ credit for still beating the "he's good for the game" horse though. Everyone else seems to have left after the fourth race.  #orangeisn'tthenewblack
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 11:48:02 AM by Jud_T »
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2016, 12:07:19 PM »
Quote from: Jud_T on June 10, 2016, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: Richard Hetzel on June 10, 2016, 11:18:57 AM
Maybe a  dumb question, but shouldn't the club hold the initiation fees in a separate account so that they can always pay people back when they leave? Wait....that actually sounds "responsible." It appears that all of the initiation fee monies have been used "elsewhere" and it is a sham. Sounds like a poor business model akin to a ponzi scheme!

What's the point of charging equity if you can't use the cash?  Interest?  That'll buy you a box of ProVs these days.  I remember when a buddy of mine said he only joined equity clubs so he could get his money back...it's called equity for a reason...gotta give Russ credit for still beating the "he's good for the game" horse though. Everyone else seems to have left after the fourth race.  #orangeisn'tthenewblack


I totally understand joining for the "equity" reason. However, it doesn't mean you will ever get your $$ back just because someone applied an "equity label" to your membership initiation fee. NOT having the cash to pay people out as agreed to in the contract is poor business (or great business of you are the one ending up with that money).
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Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2016, 03:51:32 PM »
Richard, I don't know of one club in the Jupiter area where you will get your money back if you leave having paid into an "equity" membership....you may be able to cut a deal or be offered a deal at some point for cents on the dollar or you can sit on the wait list for 50 years at 4 in 1 out in hope.
The day of those memberships appears to be gone as it is now a one time initiation which is non equity. Bye bye money.
There is nothing about the Trump Jupiter course that isn't better since Donald took charge and now the grass is going to new come October it can only be better. It's a good Florida course with enough to keep you interested/challenged. The riveted bunkering IMO was a plus...he lengthened most holes which seems to be a trend although I don't go back there anymore.
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Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2016, 03:16:01 PM »
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2016, 04:35:21 PM »
Steve


What's your obsession with this? I was a member and so was everyone else. I got out and got my money back. The[size=78%] guys who stuck it out knew they were most probably NOT going to get their money back.[/size]


Why Trump Made that promise does not make sense
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2016, 06:35:59 AM »
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on July 30, 2016, 04:35:21 PM
Steve


What's your obsession with this? I was a member and so was everyone else. I got out and got my money back. The[size=78%] guys who stuck it out knew they were most probably NOT going to get their money back.[/size]


Why Trump Made that promise does not make sense


Cary,


don't you think that whether a man keeps his promise or should be of interest to people if that man wants to be the next president of the USA? This is now far more than just a business deal though even then it would be hoped that promises made before buying something would be honored after the purchase.


On another note does the fact that you got out before and obviously thought he would renege not not show you do not think much of his promises?


Jon
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2016, 03:52:24 PM »
I got out in 2006 or 7, 5-6 years before Trump bought it. Every member knew the Ritz as never going to pay off the members who were leaving, so those of us who "valued" our money, dropped out and got fully paid off.


The guys who stays knew quite well that they never had a chance, everyone was in fear that the Ritz would just File Chapter 11 which they never did. The guys who stays in, $200,000 was chump change, guys with Bentley's and C5's.


As far a Trump not keeping his word, of course that bothers me and I for one would never do business with him, he's a killer. That said, I'll hold my nose and vote for him because I fear Hilary and her disciple Sol Alinsky and his playbook, "Rules for Radicals"


Neither candidate should be President, the choices are beyond terrible.
Logged
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2017, 02:59:09 PM »
Federal judge orders Trump National Jupiter GC to pay nearly $6 million to members who tried to resign.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-golf-club-membership-lawsuit-234494
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2017, 08:18:01 PM »
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2017, 08:30:42 PM »
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC/ Trial Result
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2017, 10:34:10 AM »
Trump is the "King of Debt" He really won this case: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-02/the-donald-and-the-debt
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Trump National Jupiter. Jupiter Florida, formerly Ritz Carlton GC/ Trial Result
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2017, 10:54:59 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on February 02, 2017, 10:34:10 AM
Trump is the "King of Debt" He really won this case: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-02-02/the-donald-and-the-debt

He "won" it with more of his "truthful hyperbole" or "mere puffery", known more commonly as "lying", whether under oath or not.
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Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken
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