[Bill_McBride]

After several visits to St Andrews and a half dozen rounds on the Old Course, I have begun to wonder why this, the oldest and most influential course in golf, was built on the land that might be the least desirable of the land where the Eden, Old, New and Jubilee sit today. 


There is really only one dune of consequence on the Old, the site of the 7th/11th greens.  The closest to that is the dune that blocks the right half of the 8th green on the New Course.  Both the New and Jubilee bring the dramatic seaside dune line into play.   This creates some dramatic holes on both courses. 


What say ye?  Why was that dune side land ignored when the Old Course was originally laid out?

[Dan Moore]

I don't know the answer but it might have been that the rest of the land was covered by gorse. Even the Old Course was very narrow before Old Tom started removing the gorse to make the course wider so it could accommodate more traffic as the game grew in popularity after the introduction of the guttie.   

[Steve Lang]

   I'd ask Melvyn...


From my time there, perhaps because the first tee was right down the street from the old church ( when did it become ruins)?

[James Bennett]

Bill

I'm not sure what the coastline was when The Old Course was first used for golf.
I suspect much of the New and Jubilee was underwater at those early stages several centuries ago.
Rich Goodale would know (not that he was there at the time, but from his research  )

James B

[RJ_Daley]

Maybe the earliest golfers on the land we know as TOC wanted the less dramatic or less sever dunesland because their concept wasn't golf course architecture, it was going out and finding a suitable place to lay out holes.  So, maybe they naturally went out to play their games on the easier and less severely contoured land.  And maybe because it was less severe, the turf was easier to establish as short via grazing and whatever means they undertook to 'groom the turf' suitable for play.  As we know they had any number of holes up to in the 30s, all crossing each other every which way.  By the time Old Tom began to more definitively designate hole corridors and maintain bunkers and lines of play, perhaps they just took it for conventional wisdom that the land they had been tramping on for golf, was the land it was supposed to be on.  Then, once the game became even more popular, they another and another to handle all who wanted to play at the legendary St. Andrews. 

Just conjecture on my part, of course.

[Ken Moum]

I've thought about this a bit and came up with a few theories.

First, they were playing on turf "mowed" by sheep and rabbits. The dunes closer to the sea likely weren't playable 500 years ago.

Second, I'm pretty sure those guys weren't looking for dramatic holes. They were batting featherie--or wooden--balls around with long-nose clubs.

Third, last spring my wife and i spent several days riding bikes around parts of Scotland, which put us in linksland east of Nairn, through Irvine Beach Park, along some undeveloped links north of Western Gailes down almost to Royal Troon.

What struck me was the fact that a lot of that ground "looked like golf." It first occurred riding along the beach adjacent to Culbin Forest a couple of miles east of Nairn Dunbar.

Then, while we were staying in Irvine, we rode both north to Ardrossan which took us past Bogside and south to Troon.

The Beach Park could be a golf course in a few days if you were willing to putt on 1860s greens.

But.... Looking at the higher, more dramatic dunes, I never got the same feeling.

I have a few pictures that I'll try to post in hopes that they'll convey the feeling.

BTW, on one of those rides, between Beach Park and Western Gailes I saw a piece of ground that made me think, "Omigod, if this makes me want to build a golf course what the hell would Doak or Crenshaw be thinking?"

K


Edit:  Since that Daley fellow posted while I was typing, I have to say I agree completely.

[K Rafkin]

I disagree with the concept that the land that the old course sits on is the "least interesting".  The Old Course lacks the "framing dunes" of the New Course, but i found that the parts of the land that you actually play golf on (not just look at) are more interesting on the Old.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Top 100 list hadn't yet been invented yet.  Maybe that has something to due with the omission of the the more dramatic dunescape.

[Jon Wiggett]

The land that TOC plays over is some of, if not the best golfing land in the world. Golf in its purest form is not about the panorama or how spectacular the backdrop is. It is also not about how well the hole is 'framed' or what the conditioning is like. Golf is/should be about playing over the land as it is laid out before the golfer and overcoming the challenges it present.

In this vain there is no other course that can match the diversity and quality of the golfing challenge that TOC has to offer.

Jon

[Pat Burke]

I would imagine it was tough for the animals to graze in the dunes and gorse when at all started.


Much like Bill Coore walking and following animal trails, I would imagine the original site for
golf was also the easiest/clearest path for grazing?

[Jon Wiggett]

I would imagine the original site for golf was also the easiest/clearest path for grazing?

Hence the name Fairway for the playing corridor I assume.

[Adam Lawrence]

I think we should remember that most of the really really old links are not in on big dune sites.

[Thomas Dai]

A couple of points -
From the old paintings and plans etc that I've seen much of the area up around the clubhouse, the current 1st/18th holes and the Swilken Burn seems to have been pretty beachy and tidal until the Bruce Embankment was built and as such was probably easily effected by storms and high tides so best kept away from for golf.

In addition, if you examine the land links courses in general are on you'll notice that the highest dunes are almost always nearest the sea and playing, even walking, through even very slightly bigger sand dunes isn't physically easy so I suggest that in times gone by you'd be more likely to play in the more easily walkable areas in the first instance.

As Jon says, hence the term 'fairway', or fairest way, for the playing corridor.

Atb

[jeffwarne]

The land that TOC plays over is some of, if not the best golfing land in the world. Golf in its purest form is not about the panorama or how spectacular the backdrop is. It is also not about how well the hole is 'framed' or what the conditioning is like. Golf is/should be about playing over the land as it is laid out before the golfer and overcoming the challenges it present.

In this vain there is no other course that can match the diversity and quality of the golfing challenge that TOC has to offer.

Jon

worth repeating.

[Sean_A]

1. The terrain for TOC is awesome, better than the rest of the property.

2. There were some issues with flooding...look at aerials of the combined 1st & 18 fairway...The 1st is flat as a pancake.

3. I believe when the land was given over for golf locals still had the right to hang out their washing on the whins located to the seaside of the course. 

4.The terrain for TOC is awesome, better than the rest of the property.

5. The terrain for TOC is awesome, better than the rest of the property.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Bill


The answer why TOC is where it is is down to sporting and practical issues. Golf back then really was a ground game and for that you need hard packed turf with short fine grass. You generally don't get that half way up a dune. As Adam has pointed out, the really old courses such as TOC, Musselburgh, Perth and Glasgow Green were on flat plains that were generally multi purpose including for grazing which would have made them ideal for golf.


Also as Jon also said, framing had nothing to do with it. Us Scots are blind when it comes to what lies outwith the field of play hence why no one cares too much about caravan parks and the likes 


Niall[size=78%]  [/size]

[Adam Lawrence]

To emphasise Niall's point, before the invention of the cylinder mower in the 1830s the only mowing machines out there were sheep and cattle.

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments, guys.  I agree, just like stirring up conversation about my favorite course!

[MCirba]

Because it was the easiest path townspeople (and fishermen) took to get to their boats at the end of the links and back home in the evening, I'd suppose.   

[Kalen Braley]

Because it was the easiest path townspeople (and fishermen) took to get to their boats at the end of the links and back home in the evening, I'd suppose.

I'm inclined to agree with Mike in concept:

It was likely the easiest land to "tame" and put their holes on.  The bigger dunes would have required earth moving or otherwise, and it was probably too much.  I doubt much of them really thought about principles of design either...

In one sense, TOC was a bit of an "accident" and just plain dumb luck.  There's no way they had any concept at the time of what it would mean to the world in the future...much less be the global home of golf and their names become legendary.

[Tom_Doak]

They weren't looking for drama ... they were looking for turf that was suitably grazed so they wouldn't lose their balls, and so they could hole out when they got to the "green".  This tended to be right at the borderline between the farmed ground [at the edge of the Eden course] and the dunes ... what the Scots call "the links".

[Pete_Pittock]

Bill,
Remember the 'tombstones' in the fairways. They are called march stones.  To this day, there still remains many of the 800 year old “March Stones”, scattered around the Old and the other courses.  These March Stones were used to delineate grazing areas and presumably, grazing and golf areas as the sport grew and refined.

You have to go with the course you have, rather than the course you want to have.

[Niall C]

Pete


The March stones delineated a property boundary, not grazing rights although it's possible that grazing was allowed on one side of the boundary and not on the other but you would have needed a fence to effectively control that.


Mike,


St Andrews has a harbour so the boats would have been there or on the beach adjacent to the town rather than at the end of the links, however I think you are right in the sense that where the course is was the route for travellers going to and fro to Leuchars and beyond. After all the bridge at the 1st/18th, that we now know as the Swilcan Bridge, would have been built for travellers and drovers and not purely for the benefit of or if at all for golfers.


Kalen


I think the point here is that they didn't "tame" the land and just went with what they had. Of course over time they would have started making adaptions and "improvements" but in early days I'm sure it would have been pretty basic. I believe at one time golf was largely a winter game as that was when the grass was down.


Niall 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Originally holes 1 and 22 started and finished at the bottom of the hill behind the current location. i.e. closer to what was then town.

Same with the original course at North Berwick.

[Niall C]

Originally holes 1 and 22 started and finished at the bottom of the hill behind the current location. i.e. closer to what was then town.

Same with the original course at North Berwick.

and at Lossiemouth.


Niall

[MCirba]

Tony & Niall,

Are you saying that real estate development ended up truncating and ultimately shortening and modifying the original courses at St. Andrews, North Berwick, and Lossiemouth?

Is it too late to consider restoration?   

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