Pebble Beach vs Pacific Dunes

[Don Jordan]

I am having one of those once in a lifetime trips in June to attend the US Open and have planned a trip to Bandon based on research on this site, and hope to snaffle a tee time at Pebble also. I found an old thread from 2002 comparing Pebble and Pac Dunes and rather than resurrecting an 11 page 13 year old thread though I would throw the question out there again, I am particularly interested to see how opinions have evolved with time.

[John Cowden]

Among timely coincidences, I was standing on the 16th green at Bandon yesterday when I commented to my playing partners, "We could always go to Pebble and pay seven times as much for a course and view that's half as cool as this".  Instead, we'll just play Trails today and count ourselves twice as fortunate.

[Sean Ogle]

I've played each of the Bandon courses a 4-5 times and I played Pebble for the first time this summer.


I'd tempered my expectations due to so many people telling me they thought it was overrated.


Without a doubt, I consider it the best course I've played. Shot for shot I like it better than Pacific, or any other course.


BUT, if we're talking experience, that's a totally different story.


Pebble is like going to golf Disneyland and Pacific is like a secluded ocean retreat. Walking down the 4th fairway at Pacific with no one else around you is about as good as it gets.


At Pebble everything is overpriced, and there is very little that feels "pure" about it.


Even with that, I found myself having more fun playing Pebble.


If we're talking value, well then it's a no brainer. Especially this time of year.

[Rob Marshall]

You can't replace the history of Pebble

[Tom_Doak]

You can't replace the history of Pebble

But what does that have to do with how good a golf course it is?

[Brad Treadwell]

Anyone interested in a little Match Play?  Pebble vs Pacific?

[Peter Pallotta]

One of us needs to develop or be granted enough talent, fame and/or cache, ideally in the entertainment industry, to warrant him/her hosting an annual Clambake at Bandon. (No disrespect to Justin Timberlake, but he can't serve in the Bing Crosby role.) If it's done right, in the few years time we'll have settled this "history" issue for good. We'll gather there every February or March for a boozy celebration of friendship, golf, talent, and, well, booze. Besides our host, we'll need a few top notch golfers, a few people who sing, someone to bake the clams on an open fire, a couple of comics and impressionists, and maybe also some supermodels. If no one minds, I'll take on the role of Jimmy Demaret.
Peter

[John Kavanaugh]

Peter,


Have you been to Bandon? My last memory is of a fat Californian on his bluetooth. His pants were down around his knees and he was barking some gibberish at me. When I turned to him to respond you can only imagine my disappointment to learn that he was on his phone closing a deal. Bandon has been found, it's old news.

[Peter Pallotta]

John - you're a very good writer, and so you paint very well a very unhappy picture. Man oh man: I'd just gotten used to guys 'closing their deals' in the downtown Starbucks; I was hoping there was a place left in the world where they'd shut the f--- up.


On a brighter note: while I've not yet been to Bandon I am more convinced each day that the past is NOT prologue, and in fact the only thing it actually IS is "the past" -- a non existent phantom of miasmic half remembered half truths that have no meaning and relevance to the "now". Which is to say, for all I know, and as incredible as it may sound (especially IF past is prologue, which it isnt): I might actually be the one to HOST the Clambake...and sing...and get around PB in under par!
Peter

[Ian Mackenzie]

My favorite quote from this comparison was made (I think) by George Peper:


"Take the wife to Pebble, take the boys to Bandon."

[John Kavanaugh]

John - you're a very good writer, and so you paint very well a very unhappy picture. Man oh man: I'd just gotten used to guys 'closing their deals' in the downtown Starbucks; I was hoping there was a place left in the world where they'd shut the f--- up.


On a brighter note: while I've not yet been to Bandon I am more convinced each day that the past is NOT prologue, and in fact the only thing it actually IS is "the past" -- a non existent phantom of miasmic half remembered half truths that have no meaning and relevance to the "now". Which is to say, for all I know, and as incredible as it may sound (especially IF past is prologue, which it isnt): I might actually be the one to HOST the Clambake...and sing...and get around PB in under par!
Peter

Peter,


My point being that Bandon is now in the conversation of every traveling golfer.  If you want the experience Bandon provided a few years back go to Cabot now. Nothing quite like sharing a course with explolfers as opposed to golfing tourists.

[Bill_McBride]

One of us needs to develop or be granted enough talent, fame and/or cache, ideally in the entertainment industry, to warrant him/her hosting an annual Clambake at Bandon. (No disrespect to Justin Timberlake, but he can't serve in the Bing Crosby role.) If it's done right, in the few years time we'll have settled this "history" issue for good. We'll gather there every February or March for a boozy celebration of friendship, golf, talent, and, well, booze. Besides our host, we'll need a few top notch golfers, a few people who sing, someone to bake the clams on an open fire, a couple of comics and impressionists, and maybe also some supermodels. If no one minds, I'll take on the role of Jimmy Demaret.
Peter

Famous Clambake story from a less PC era:  Phil Harris next to Bing in the TV stand behind 18.  "Hey Bing, who's that out in the fairway?"   "Why that's Gay Brewer?"   "Oh yeah, that fairy winemaker from Modesto!"

[Kalen Braley]

I think a matchplay would be good.  Heres mine!! 

1)  PD easily...1 up
2)  PD...2 up
3)  PD...3 up
4)  Tie,....PD still 3 up
5)  PD.... 4 up
6)  Tie, but only cause Mucci would have a fit if I chose PD  4 up
7)  Gotta go with Tie here.  4 UP
  PB on the board... back to 3 up
9)  PB scores ....2 up
10)  PB again....  1 up
11)  PD  .....back to 2 up
12)  PD.... back to 3 up
13)  PD easy pick here.....4 up
14)  PB .....3 up
15) PD  ... 4 up
16) PB...controversial I know, but sticking with it.  3 up
17)  PD....4 up
18)  PB....back to 3.

So there you go, PD wins 3 up

[Peter Pallotta]

Excellent, Kalen. And soon it'll have a Clambake too. We can get Eric Smith to deliver the old Dean Martin line:


"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. Imagine waking up in the morning and knowing that's the best you're going to feel all day."

[Sean_A]

John - you're a very good writer, and so you paint very well a very unhappy picture. Man oh man: I'd just gotten used to guys 'closing their deals' in the downtown Starbucks; I was hoping there was a place left in the world where they'd shut the f--- up.


On a brighter note: while I've not yet been to Bandon I am more convinced each day that the past is NOT prologue, and in fact the only thing it actually IS is "the past" -- a non existent phantom of miasmic half remembered half truths that have no meaning and relevance to the "now". Which is to say, for all I know, and as incredible as it may sound (especially IF past is prologue, which it isnt): I might actually be the one to HOST the Clambake...and sing...and get around PB in under par!
Peter

Peter,


My point being that Bandon is now in the conversation of every traveling golfer.  If you want the experience Bandon provided a few years back go to Cabot now. Nothing quite like sharing a course with explolfers as opposed to golfing tourists.

JakaB


It is odd to attack a resort because it is a resort     One can't go to a resort and expect to avoid guys who won't turn off their phones.  Its a go-go world and in that world many think their job or personal life is more important and pressing than anything else.  Self correction comes with age and experience...find the time to play and the time to work...don't mix the two.  If you want to avoid the madding crowd (thank you Thomas) do all your shopping in proper private English clubs where a phone is a sign of poor manners    Its very important to at least give the impression that all is under control 


Ciao

[Tim Leahy]

6 and 7 a tie? You lose all credibility there Kalen

[Brett Wiesley]

Jon,


Enjoy your trip, whichever you choose to endeavor.  Here is my take.  I enjoy both, but for the $$ as noted Bandon is better, but still not cheap.  It has been said, "bring the wife to Pebble and the boy's to Bandon".  On my first visit to Bandon I agreed, but this past year I saw many couples.  They noted enjoying all to offer.  Golf, hikes to the beach, relaxing in the quiet town of Bandon.  I personally think Bandon is just perfect.  4 courses, and plenty more.  Shorty's, Punchbowl, the Preserve....  It's all so tightly woven on the property, and so well run.  You'll leave wondering why you don't have that kind of service at your own country club.

[Mark_Fine]

Pebble will always be diminished in most people's eyes as it already has been here because of cost!  I thought the discussion was about the golf course itself and not what someone paid to play it  The best reviews of courses that I have seen and trust don't take into account the green fee!  On that note, Pebble is a 10 in my book because I have played and studied it enough to know. Pacific has the potential in my mind to also be a 10 but I don't have enough rounds there to confidently make that judgement.  One thing for sure is that both are very different golf experiences that should not be missed. 

On the match play head to head; it is one way but not a great way to compare golf courses.  Very subjective and doesn't take into account the flow of the golf holes which is soooo critical in great designs!

History on the other hand will always be a debate.  The simple nature of the game will always say that history is a part of a golf course unlike cost to play and cost to build which can vary. 

[Neil Davis]

Not playing Pebble Beach would be a mistake.  I thought it was fantastic, as is Pacific Dunes. 

[Sven Nilsen]

A topic that was beat to death, stalled out, and then revived and pummeled again in this thread from 2011 (easily findable even with all the recent complaints about the search function):


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48499.0.html


As noted recently, the match play format doesn't really do justice to a comparison between two courses.  And in this case in particular, we're talking about two different types of land, maintenance melds and general aesthetics. 


Putting aside your preference for one style over the other, in a like hole comparison, I'd have Pacific Dunes edging out Pebble.  The par 3's go to PD (5 and 12 lose it for Pebble).  Same for the par 5's.  Pacific's Par 4's are all better than the least interesting holes at Pebble, and the 8, 9 and 10 stretch might only be good enough to eke out a tie here.


I'd like to have seen the woolier version of Pebble (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61371.0.html), but the more manicured look of today appeals less to me than the wild west look of Pacific.

[Stephen Davis]

Well said Sven! I agree with your breakdown. I love Pebble Beach, but I am always at a loss when people say Pebble is a 10. A 10 should be a course where there are few to no weak holes. This is not the case with Pebble which starts off with several holes that are just okay. The great holes are truly spectacular, but there are weak holes and more than just a couple.

[Kalen Braley]

6 and 7 a tie? You lose all credibility there Kalen

All 4 of them are excellent holes....

I agree with the other comment, a better comparison would be apples to apples par 3s vs par 3s, etc.

Comparing them in purely chronological order is a tad flawed.

[Mark_Fine]

Stephen,
There are no weak holes at Pebble Beach  , just misunderstood holes   

[Garland Bayley]

6 and 7 a tie? You lose all credibility there Kalen

I consider 6 and 7 great holes at Pacific Dunes. Since you have never played there, I have to wonder about your credibility.

[Tim Leahy]

6 and 7 a tie? You lose all credibility there Kalen

I have eyes and have seen PD played in tourny conditions on TV. I have played Pebble around a dozen times. How many times have you played Pebble Kalen?

I consider 6 and 7 great holes at Pacific Dunes. Since you have never played there, I have to wonder about your credibility.