[RSantangelo]

I was fortunate to play Ballyneal in October and am at Streamsong now. 

I found the conditions at ballyneal much firmer and faster

Did others have the same experience?

If so, what would account for the difference? 

[Ian Mackenzie]

I'm just going to guess:


Streamsong is in Florida where, throughout the summer and early fall, it can rain regularly in the late pm.
Plus, it's a resort and must cater to a resort crowd. Ballyneal is a private club owned by a sole entity in a totally different climate. They may have used different grasses, too.


Apples to oranges.

[archie_struthers]

 


I'm no expert on Florida grassing but pretty sure they would be over seeding this time of year. It looked great last week but I didn't play golf, just visiting.

[Adam Lawrence]

Totally different grass species and types. Not really comparable in any meaningful way.


Archie, I am pretty sure Streamsong doesn't overseed. Tom will doubtless confirm

[jeffwarne]

I was fortunate to play Ballyneal in October and am at Streamsong now. 

I found the conditions at ballyneal much firmer and faster

Did others have the same experience?

If so, what would account for the difference?

about 3000 miles for starters
grass types-grainy bermuda vs. fescue
climate
recent rains
humidity
recent rains
recent rains
and recent rains

[Rees Milikin]

What time of year did you play Ballyneal vs. what time of year did you play Streamsong?

[Ben Kodadek]

They don't perform any overseeding at Streamsong.   


Additionally, we've (Tampa) had an unprecedented string of hot weather int the last month.  Hitting or breaking record highs for quite a while...more water on the course.   Give it a couple weeks and things should dry out and firm up. 

[Josh Tarble]

Did you expect them to play similar?  It's bermuda vs. fescue. 

[archie_struthers]

 




Was wrong on the overseeding. 




I didn't play Streamsong on my visit but it surely wasn't fat by any standard you use. In fact the wind blows pretty good and it's probably hard to keep it wet even if that mistake was made. It wasn't !


When  it come s to firm and fast every day , every hour is different .

[Tom_Doak]

Streamsong is a pretty fast playing surface from January through March, when the grass isn't growing so actively.  [It only goes off color for a couple of weeks even in the coldest of winters, so there's no need to overseed there.]  But it's impossible to keep those dry conditions when the weather is warm and wet and the Bermuda is actively growing.


Ballyneal is about the perfect place for keeping fescue dry and firm.  The only issue they have is in hot summers when they may have to raise the height of cut slightly to protect the plant.




How would you compare the golf holes?

[Rees Milikin]

We just got trolled

[Tom_Doak]

We just got trolled

Not sure what you mean.  When I see a topic on a golf course architecture web site titled "Streamsong Compared to Ballyneal," I expect to see some discussion of the architecture, instead of just several people exchanging their own limited knowledge of turf management in different parts of the U.S.

[Rees Milikin]

We just got trolled

Not sure what you mean.  When I see a topic on a golf course architecture web site titled "Streamsong Compared to Ballyneal," I expect to see some discussion of the architecture, instead of just several people exchanging their own limited knowledge of turf management in different parts of the U.S.

It was in reference to the OP.

[Josh Tarble]

We just got trolled

Not sure what you mean.  When I see a topic on a golf course architecture web site titled "Streamsong Compared to Ballyneal," I expect to see some discussion of the architecture, instead of just several people exchanging their own limited knowledge of turf management in different parts of the U.S.

Tom,
How would you compare the courses?

I recently was on a trip to Streamsong with a very well-traveled group.  I was the only one that hadn't been to Ballyneal as well.  Nearly all of them thought Ballyneal was vastly superior to Streamsong with most of them thinking Ballyneal was far more interesting off the tee.  (They liked the Red course better for that same reason).

I can see that opinion, but I also thought they were maybe just hitting it out there and the width didn't give them much to orient themselves with.  I think the width at Streamsong can actually work against players sometimes. 

[Kevin Stark]

My one round at Streamsong Blue was in late December a couple of years ago. It was one of those overcast, cold, windy winter days in central Florida that most cartballers dislike. It was a perfect day for walking and playing Streamsong. Streamsong was plenty F&F that day for me! Like Tom said, I would expect it to be smoking fast for most of the winter, especially when compared to the slop you get in a lot of Florida.

[Greg Chambers]

We just got trolled

Not sure what you mean.  When I see a topic on a golf course architecture web site titled "Streamsong Compared to Ballyneal," I expect to see some discussion of the architecture, instead of just several people exchanging their own limited knowledge of turf management in different parts of the U.S.

It was in reference to the OP.

Did you even read the OP?  Your first question suggests you didn't.

[Rees Milikin]

We just got trolled

Not sure what you mean.  When I see a topic on a golf course architecture web site titled "Streamsong Compared to Ballyneal," I expect to see some discussion of the architecture, instead of just several people exchanging their own limited knowledge of turf management in different parts of the U.S.

It was in reference to the OP.

Did you even read the OP?  Your first question suggests you didn't.

Yep, it was a rhetorical question.

[archie_struthers]

Couldn't compare the two as I'm haven't been to Ballyneal .  Just wanted people to know that Streamsong was anything but puffy the day I visited . Thought Streamsong was way cool and going back to play and enjoy this winter . Scope was huge , views very good, green complexes interesting and diverse. Lots to take in on a short visit .


Can't wait to see it  and play in February !

[Andrew Bernstein]

I will give the same vote of approval to the conditions at Streamsong. I played in November and the conditions, while not lightening quick, were still fast and firm. I know I liked the conditions when I noticed them on the first hole and then didn't pay any further attention to them throughout the round. To me, that is usually the best sign of a well-conditioned, fast and firm course.

[Martin Lehmann]

I played the Streamsong courses March this year. Conditions were excellent: fast & firm. Being used to play North European fescue/bent/poa courses, these were the only Florida courses where the bermuda didn't bother me at all.

[RSantangelo]

Streamsong is a pretty fast playing surface from January through March, when the grass isn't growing so actively.  [It only goes off color for a couple of weeks even in the coldest of winters, so there's no need to overseed there.]  But it's impossible to keep those dry conditions when the weather is warm and wet and the Bermuda is actively growing.


Ballyneal is about the perfect place for keeping fescue dry and firm.  The only issue they have is in hot summers when they may have to raise the height of cut slightly to protect the plant.




How would you compare the golf holes?

Thanks Tom, very helpful explanation. Streamsong is the best golf I have played in Florida and my new go to spot for Florida golf.

I preferred the front 9 at Streamsong as he back felt long.  I would have loved a more even split between the front and back

I really enjoyed 1 as a starting hole at Streamsong. 

I also really enjoyed the front side par 3s and generally the cape holes......

I enjoyed the greens at ballyneal more....And I found the firmer conditions at ballyneal to drive the strategy of the design much more...at ballyneal, I found myself in a bunch of spots where poor or careless placement really had a consequence

At Streamsong, I was able to stop or back up wedges and shorter irons and it neutralized some of the premium on positioning/strategy...

I played Streamsong the last 3 days...no rain...85 and sunny for two days and 80 and cloudy

I played ballyneal in perfect conditions in October

I would summarize ballyneal as  is one of my favorites

I would summarize Streamsong as my favorite in Florida

[William_G]

no comparison

[David Royer]

I have had the great fortune to play each course multiples of times.  Each bring it's own unique features to the forefront.  For many years at Ballyneal I would become preoccupied by the greatness of holes.  Standing on 4 tee, 7 maybe the one hole that brings a laugh and smile to your face every time you play it, the sheer beauty of 8 etc. etc..  However this fall i was playing 36 a day when it struck me  that the routing is the sheer genius of the course.  Whenever I walk up 9 fairway I am always baffled by the fact I'm there.  It is as if I just walked downed 1 fairway.  There is a sense I just started the round.  I finally came to the conclusion there in lies the greatness of Ballyneal.  Losing oneself and time is a rare commodity in the world we live in.


Streamsong Blue only grows on me every time I play it.  At first I was a red guy.  For the longest time I didn't appreciate certain holes.  17 for one. I anxious to go back next month and revisit the routing rather than be fixated on the holes.  BTW-Tom, Im the guy who yelled at you off the balcony at Bally about the volume 2. Your staff was great and it's all good.

[Bill_McBride]

I have had the great fortune to play each course multiples of times.  Each bring it's own unique features to the forefront.  For many years at Ballyneal I would become preoccupied by the greatness of holes.  Standing on 4 tee, 7 maybe the one hole that brings a laugh and smile to your face every time you play it, the sheer beauty of 8 etc. etc..  However this fall i was playing 36 a day when it struck me  that the routing is the sheer genius of the course.  Whenever I walk up 9 fairway I am always baffled by the fact I'm there.  It is as if I just walked downed 1 fairway.  There is a sense I just started the round.  I finally came to the conclusion there in lies the greatness of Ballyneal.  Losing oneself and time is a rare commodity in the world we live in.


Streamsong Blue only grows on me every time I play it.  At first I was a red guy.  For the longest time I didn't appreciate certain holes.  17 for one. I anxious to go back next month and revisit the routing rather than be fixated on the holes.  BTW-Tom, Im the guy who yelled at you off the balcony at Bally about the volume 2. Your staff was great and it's all good.

I think SS Blue #17 is the best par 5 I've played in several years, from the cross bunkers to that swooping green.

[Jerry Kluger]

I believe that any course that can be in the same conversation as Ballyneal is an outstanding course.

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