Shinnecock v. National

« **on:** September 16, 2003, 04:02:37 PM »

I just got done playing Shinnecock and National yesterday and today. I was curious how others compared the 2 courses.

I'll start. I thought Shinnecock was the tougher course with it fairways set up already for the Open next year and the rough up. I shot identical scores at both courses.

I thought the greens were tougher at National.

As far as eye candy goes, I thought National was outstanding, starting from the 1st tee, whereas the eye candy starts at 9 on Shinnecock.

Which course do you think is the better course?

« **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2003, 04:08:47 PM »

Shinnecock is absolutely outstanding by any measuring stick - the Muirfield of America. Tough, sexy, sprawling, strategic and stunningly beautiful in terms of land forms and bunkering.

However, NGLA is the best golf course on the planet. Period.

« **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2003, 04:11:59 PM »

Quasssi,

These are two of my top 5 courses ANYWHERE.

However, I have to say that I think the "eye candy" you mention starts on the first tee of Shinnecock as much as NGLA. #1 tee at Shinnecock is one of the best opening tee shots in golf in my opinion. The reason..... First, it's a nice slight dogleg right with a "capelike" angle to it where you chew off as much as you can handle... Second, it's an elevated tee which overlooks much of the golf course and is as inviting of a start as I have ever played.

I will agree that #1-8 are more "eye appealing" at NGLA than at Shinnecock but I still think that the first 8 at Shinnecock are awesome.

I love these two places so much that I am afraid that I can't choose one over the other.

Jeff F.

« **Reply #3 on:** September 16, 2003, 04:38:50 PM »

Quassi,

Both courses are brilliant in their own style of architecture and playability.

With respect to these two courses, there is no "worst" golf course

« **Reply #4 on:** September 16, 2003, 05:21:57 PM »

Quassi:

You have hit on the great divider, what really determines what one appreciates most in a golf course, for those who have played both of these anyway. It truly is revelatory....

To that end, put me in line with gyro - truer words have never been spoken.

But ask Matt Ward, and many others, this same question and you will get a very different answer...

Different strokes for different folks, most definitely.

TH

« **Reply #5 on:** September 16, 2003, 07:51:50 PM »

Both are Three Star Michelins and either one could be called the greatest course in the world ALONG WITH ABOUT 15 - 20 OTHER COURSES.

« **Reply #6 on:** September 16, 2003, 08:35:36 PM »

kinda like apples and oranges to me - and why even compare

then think of National in the context of 1910!!!!!!!!! when there was nothing in ther US like it

NGLA hasn't changed that much since then either while Shinny has had a lot of modifications, even from the Macdonald/Raynor course of 1913 thru 1930 whch wan't too chabby a course.

« **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2003, 08:52:00 PM »

Quote from: Gene on September 16, 2003, 07:51:50 PM

the greatest course in the world ALONG WITH ABOUT 15 - 20 OTHER COURSES.

Dr,

I am looking forward to that debate in October.

« **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2003, 10:32:43 PM »

What Gene said!

Both are Doak 10's without question and historic landmarks of golf course architecture that are still joys to play. Cherish every chance you get to play either of them because its as good as it gets for a true golfer!

« **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2003, 10:34:52 PM »

Quassi,

Which one would you prefer to play, day in and day out,
or, if you were to play a total of 1000 rounds on the two courses, how would you divide your play ?

« **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2003, 11:15:00 PM »

Both are so good and yet so different that I hardly care to declare one better than the other. But, both also suffer from the same problem as Pacific Dunes: they are too far from Cleveland.

Jeff Fortson: I share your appreciation for the opening tee shot at Shinnecock. I can't think of many in the same class.

« **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2003, 12:43:08 AM »

1000 rounds?

Today:
600 - NGLA
400 - SH

When I am nearing my dotage:
750 - NGLA
250 - SH

When I am in my dotage:
800 - NGLA
100 - Westhampton, Piping Rock, Creek, Maidstone (20 each)
100 - SH

One round to play (anywhere) before they turn out the lights?
You know the answer.

« **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2003, 09:06:26 AM »

You guys (with the exception of gyro) are the biggest bunch of namby-pambies I have ever seen. I am disgusted and embarassed to know many of you. Come on - we KNOW they are both great - that's a given. We KNOW they both belong on the short list of the world's greatest courses - that too is a given. But they are SO different in style, play, what they evoke... pick one or the other or forever suffer the "wuss" tag.

Obviously I say all this with tongue firmly in cheek, but still, it is such a great revealer of what one likes in a golf course... ok, if you fellows want to keep that close to the vest, I'll understand.

And yes, Mike and Gene - you WILL have another to add to the debate soon enough.... it gets really tough when you see all of these close together.

In any case, put me right down there exactly with gyro, once again.

TH

« **Reply #13 on:** September 17, 2003, 09:10:58 AM »

Tom Huckaby,

While Shinnecock may be a far more demanding test,
I prefer NGLA.

There is something uniquely sporty about the golf course.

« **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2003, 09:11:07 AM »

Pat:

I think 600 national, 400 shinnecock is about right

« **Reply #15 on:** September 17, 2003, 09:24:58 AM »

Now we're talking!

And this is the first time I've said this in a long time (but far from the first time ever

), but I agree completely with Patrick Mucci - every single word. Well said.

And now it gets even tougher... how to place the number of rounds out of 1000 - well done to step up to that, quassi.

For me I'm gonna go more like 750-250 in favor of NGLA, at this point in my life. I just don't have the "game" to allow for anything but frustration at Shinnecock, but I still have enough ego that I'm not ready to move up to the front tees. I just also do so prefer the uniquely sporty nature of NGLA... so that's how it goes for me. Interesting, I think it's going to go in the reverse direction as gyro goes... as I get older and my game gets even worse, I'm hoping my ego will subside, I'll move up to the front tees at Shinnecock, then enjoy it more... making it closer to 600 NGLA 400 Shinnecock then....

In any case one round only? It's gonna be on the left side of the road as you drive in...

TH

« **Reply #16 on:** September 17, 2003, 09:59:15 AM »

Tom H- never thought I'd see the day when you're calling us out for being "namby-pambies ". Well done.

NGLA is my favorite place on earth to play golf. Its simply perfect.

My preference would likely be 3:1 NGLA over SH.

Now I would love the "problem" of actually having 1000 rounds to choose from among the two courses!

« **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2003, 10:01:16 AM »

Not my standard m.o., huh GC?

But well done. I kinda had you figured in the NGLA camp... 3:1 sounds just about right to me also!

We need Matt Ward back from Ireland to check in with the dissenting view...

TH

« **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2003, 10:13:34 AM »

A thousand rounds?

I'll settle for one at each. Or at either.

« **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2003, 10:15:17 AM »

That thought had occurred to me also, Dan. Wow... 1000 rounds at these two makes up a pretty damn fine golf life!

TH

« **Reply #20 on:** September 17, 2003, 10:22:17 AM »

Importantly, both courses make you think about each shot you play.

Shinnecock makes you think about the demands the course puts on your game, and, accordingly what shots you can or should hit in certain situations.

The National, however, more so than SH makes you look at the course, and decide among which shots you can play.

Shinnecock, to me, more than any other course, with the exception of, maybe Winged Foot, is really a series of "Hobson's Choice" shots. No such limitation exists at NGLA.

For that reason it is NGLA.

« **Reply #21 on:** September 17, 2003, 10:34:28 AM »

Quassi,

I feel bad for you having to play these two so soon after Plum Hollow. I assume they both suffered by comparison.

« **Reply #22 on:** September 17, 2003, 11:20:26 AM »

Plum Hollow was great...I loved the course. Today I play The Bridge and tomorrow Friar's Head. I'll report soon.

« **Reply #23 on:** September 17, 2003, 11:44:03 AM »

How do I get to be you? Have fun.

PS - Which is costing more, your golf or your wife's shopping in Manhattan while you are in New York?

« **Reply #24 on:** September 17, 2003, 08:34:10 PM »

David:
I told wife that hurricane was going to hit Manhattan directly, and to get out of there ASAP. She left this morning. Only did 2 days full damage.

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