[PCCraig]

My home club is currently investigating its options relating to our clubhouse. Specifically, whether to completely rebuild, renovate, or add on an addition to the current structure. The "backstory" is that my club tore down our original (Cass Gilbert-designed) clubhouse in the 1960's and built a new clubhouse that is currently used as a pretty standard country club clubhouse (bar, pro shop, small fitness center, locker rooms, banquet rooms, etc.). The club built a new pool & tennis center in ~2006 that is separate from the clubhouse on another corner of the property.

I am not involved in any way with the different meetings and discussions, nor do I have any idea what the current plan is. However, I am curious to hear if anyone has any experience with their own club rebuilding or renovating a clubhouse. Are there any "success" stories that you know of? Any "nightmare" stories?

I'm fairly uneducated as to how the whole process works so I'm curious to hear what people here have to say.

Thanks.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I've been involved in both a new building and renovations. The new building was more exciting as we went from a temporary structure to a new clubhouse. We needed it. The renovations were more difficult. Too many people had too many ideas.  At one club we were told of a $4000 assessment so we knew it was coming.  It wasn't enough so $2000 was added to our next bill. What we got was nice but, in my opinion, didn't add that much to the value of being a member.  If I didn't like the course so much I'd have left.

[Brad Tufts]

Hi Pat,


My club (Tedesco CC north of Boston) went through this in 2010/2011.


We had a clubhouse c. 1950 that needed about $2M worth of repairs but would keep the same tired bones, so we tore the old one down and built anew.  The new one cost $11M, with $3M down and financing $8M.  Funding was done with no assessment, but rather a $100/month "long range fee" to each member that had been started several years prior.  This fee continues today and will fund eventual golf course projects, etc.


Our biggest hurdle was the vote to do it.  The first vote failed miserably, with the usual pattern of older members voting no because they didn't want interruption of club services during their golden years.  There was also a few very vehement dissenters who were convinced this was all irresponsible and we were going to default on the loan and lose our land and golf course.  Once a deal was struck with these people that stipulated an extra year of debt service reserve, a second vote passed and the clubhouse was built.   During the one full golf season of construction, we used three trailers set up in our parking lot, one for functions, one for the bar, and a small one for the pro shop, and pared down our clubhouse employees to about 5.


We have a nice new clubhouse now with state-of-the-art amenities...it feels a bit sterile inside at times, but people love it.  I would say the men's bar is a touch too small, the new function space also a bit too small (we now have separate function space and large dining room when they used to be one in the same, plus a new permanent tent outside for functions), but we now have a nice gym and indoor hitting bay for the winter, as well as a vastly improved pro shop space.  The bag room/pro shop/3rd tee clutter has been vastly improved (was a crowded sh*t show before), and we got an awesome huge new putting green out of it too.


Questions?

[Jason Topp]

I don't know of good examples on how to do this right but there are plenty of examples on how to do this wrong.  My former club went into debt to build a new one in 2004.  A sizeable number of members left the club rather than pay the assessments.

Those who paid the assessments but left at a later date are still trying to recover payments that were purportedly "equity" at the time they were made.  The place has a cavernous F&B area that sits empty most of the time but no indoor golf practice space that could yield winter revenue and F&B sales.  When the insurance company came to look at the new pool (with all sorts of wonderful bells and whistles) it advised that 7 lifeguards needed to be on duty at all times to cover the diving board, the water slide, the kiddie pool, the deep end, the infinity area and the jungle gym/kids toy apparatus.  The pool is wonderful but looks like a lifeguard convention.

If I were tackling such a project, I would want to look at it from a cold financial perspective  and have reasonable estimates verified by independent people who have no skin in the game about (1) the costs of buildig, maintaining and insuring the new building; (2) the impact on revenues - taking into account the members you will lose when they are asked to foot the bill; (3) take a fresh look at what design can yield the best financial outcome for the club.
Having a bunch of committees come up with ideas is probably the worst way to reasobably look at the issue.  Everyone has cool ideas and becomes invested in seeing those ideas come to fruition. 

Ideally - you collect the money to pay for the thing before you put a shovel in the ground. 
 

[Jerry Kluger]

The percentage of success stories that I have seen with either new clubhouses or major renovations are limited to very old line clubs with very well-to-do memberships.  Most that I have seen have caused enormous debt and fighting that resulted in reduced membership and shaky financial futures.  I don't believe that a new clubhouse generates enough new members to justify the expense - it can cause more to resign than join.  You are still foremost a golf course and then a country club so something that will make the golf experience better is worth it but the rest is pure vanity. 

[Mike_Young]

I heard a guy say once " you don't build a church for Easter Sunday" .   I think the best success stories I've seen with clubhouses followed that strategy.  It seems that strategy takes care of the members one has instead of aiding in the chase for new members which is often the goal of so many new clubhouses.    It would be interesting to see ow many of the top 50 classics still have the original clubhouse buildings with additions etc vs a complete  tear down and rebuild.  Philly Cricket is a good example of constant additions.

[Josh Stevens]

Why do great old clubs in the UK such as Rye for example, seem to get by with a clubhouse that would probably be condemned were it in the US?

I know, its a numbers game - people need to sit somewhere. If you need it you need it so build the most basic you can get away with; if you just want it, then perhaps reconsider or arrange a convenient fire first to get the insurance payout

[Ryan Coles]

Why do great old clubs in the UK such as Rye for example, seem to get by with a clubhouse that would probably be condemned were it in the US?

I know, its a numbers game - people need to sit somewhere. If you need it you need it so build the most basic you can get away with; if you just want it, then perhaps reconsider or arrange a convenient fire first to get the insurance payout

I don't see the American model is a numbers game. A lot of the places seem to have 300 members and room for all of them at the same time. To use Mike's phrase, they've built the church for Easter Sunday with Jesus coming back to lead the chorus.

$11 million would be staggeringly excessive by UK standards.

In the UK, the Scots seem to invest more in Clubhouses, perhaps boosted by visitor income. Some of the better courses in Wales, (Southerndown springs to mind) are pretty awful.

I guess it comes down to the members priorities and what they're prepared to pay for.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ryan,

certainly the clubs on the US tour of Scotland have mostly spent quite a bit on doing up their clubhouses though most are still modest in size. The vast majority however have very modest facilities as that is all that is needed. After all, a clubhouse is somewhere to store clubs, shower, have a drink and something to eat. It is good if it can do this with character and in comfort but does not need to be opulent as this often leads to financial difficulties.

Jon

[BCowan]

I heard a guy say once " you don't build a church for Easter Sunday" .   I think the best success stories I've seen with clubhouses followed that strategy.  It seems that strategy takes care of the members one has instead of aiding in the chase for new members which is often the goal of so many new clubhouses.    It would be interesting to see ow many of the top 50 classics still have the original clubhouse buildings with additions etc vs a complete  tear down and rebuild.  Philly Cricket is a good example of constant additions.

Well said.  On my way to play one of my favorites today. This track decided to spend 3 million renovating pool, clubhouse, and cartbarn.  With the new saying "family friendly".  The course sits in the best area of town.  Most affluent. They have aquired debt of the last half decade, so their theory was when ur in a hole, keep digging.  They asked long time members to donate 20k+ at 4% interest.  The pool didn't open till August. Last month was their first payment back to members. Shocker they missed it.  Clubhouses spending is a disease with private clubs.  So tragic.

Mike,

Do u think GM are largely to blame for planting seeds in members heads or assisting in the watering of the seeds?

[Mike_Young]

I heard a guy say once " you don't build a church for Easter Sunday" .   I think the best success stories I've seen with clubhouses followed that strategy.  It seems that strategy takes care of the members one has instead of aiding in the chase for new members which is often the goal of so many new clubhouses.    It would be interesting to see ow many of the top 50 classics still have the original clubhouse buildings with additions etc vs a complete  tear down and rebuild.  Philly Cricket is a good example of constant additions.

Well said.  On my way to play one of my favorites today. This track decided to spend 3 million renovating pool, clubhouse, and cartbarn.  With the new saying "family friendly".  The course sits in the best area of town.  Most affluent. They have aquired debt of the last half decade, so their theory was when ur in a hole, keep digging.  They asked long time members to donate 20k+ at 4% interest.  The pool didn't open till August. Last month was their first payment back to members. Shocker they missed it.  Clubhouses spending is a disease with private clubs.  So tragic.

Mike,

Do u think GM are largely to blame for planting seeds in members heads or assisting in the watering of the seeds?

Food and Beverage trained GM's see things differently than those coming from the golf side...

[Matt Frey, PGA]

Malone (New York) Golf Club has a pretty interesting success story. Because the club typically has such a short season (generally mid-April through October), they decided to build their new clubhouse to replace their dated and very small clubhouse over the winter.

On the first day of the offseason, after everything was cleared from the building, they enlisted the local volunteer fire department to conduct a controlled fire to burn their existing clubhouse to the ground. Evidently, it was quite the spectacle and many members turned out to watch the event unfold. I believe it only took a few hours.

After the wreckage was cleaned up over the next few days, the work on the new clubhouse began. The much larger building, with an expanded grill room and bar, larger golf shop, locker rooms for men and women, and bag storage, not to mention the new banquet hall and side dining room, was completed by the time the next season rolled around. The members did not have to endure a day without a clubhouse or use a temporary clubhouse.

Additionally, they had a specialist come into the old clubhouse before it was burnt to catalogue and disassemble their original stone fireplace to rebuild in the new grill room. It's a focal point of the member's dining area today and it looks great, not to mention it provides a very cool story.

The best part? Even though today's clubhouse is significantly larger than the previous structure, the golf course and its design was not compromised!

Obviously, this wouldn't work at many facilities today, due to season length and certain local regulations, but it is a viable option for some.

[Carl Nichols]

I heard a guy say once " you don't build a church for Easter Sunday" .   I think the best success stories I've seen with clubhouses followed that strategy.  It seems that strategy takes care of the members one has instead of aiding in the chase for new members which is often the goal of so many new clubhouses.    It would be interesting to see ow many of the top 50 classics still have the original clubhouse buildings with additions etc vs a complete  tear down and rebuild.  Philly Cricket is a good example of constant additions.

Well said.  On my way to play one of my favorites today. This track decided to spend 3 million renovating pool, clubhouse, and cartbarn.  With the new saying "family friendly".  The course sits in the best area of town.  Most affluent. They have aquired debt of the last half decade, so their theory was when ur in a hole, keep digging.  They asked long time members to donate 20k+ at 4% interest.  The pool didn't open till August. Last month was their first payment back to members. Shocker they missed it.  Clubhouses spending is a disease with private clubs.  So tragic.

Mike,

Do u think GM are largely to blame for planting seeds in members heads or assisting in the watering of the seeds?

I know a club in Chicago that is spending $3MM on a building that is NOT even the clubhouse.   $3MM without land acquisition costs ought to buy the doggone Taj Majal...

Or at least 10,000 sq feet at $300/sq foot.

[Scott Wintersteen]

My club is actually going down a renovation path right now for our clubhouse.  The clubhouse is a very large building that is approaching 100 years old.  They have made a proposal to update several rooms and add a new hallway.  I think it makes sense to update these rooms but I am very hesitant to put money into anything that is not the golf course.  It is a multimillion dollar project funded by a decent size assessment.  There are a couple of Q and A sessions this week and next week with a vote coming next month.  Will be interesting to see how the vote comes out because there are people who feel strongly for both sides.       

[David_Tepper]

One of the problems with maintaining/renovating an old clubhouse over the years is that you can reach a point where the guts of the building (the plumbing, heating & electrical systems) are so old and decrepit (and possibly out of code) that it is more practical (and possibly cheaper) to knock the building down and build a new one.

[Roger Wolfe]

Blame the GM!  Always a convenient scapegoat.

Do u think GM are largely to blame for planting seeds in members heads or assisting in the watering of the seeds?

Food and Beverage trained GM's see things differently than those coming from the golf side...


More memberships should be made aware of this fact.

[Roger Wolfe]

I heard a guy say once " you don't build a church for Easter Sunday" .   I think the best success stories I've seen with clubhouses followed that strategy.  It seems that strategy takes care of the members one has instead of aiding in the chase for new members which is often the goal of so many new clubhouses.    It would be interesting to see ow many of the top 50 classics still have the original clubhouse buildings with additions etc vs a complete  tear down and rebuild.  Philly Cricket is a good example of constant additions.

I am keeping this one,  "you don't build a church for Easter Sunday."  Perfectly stated.

[BCowan]

Blame the GM!  Always a convenient scapegoat.

Do u think GM are largely to blame for planting seeds in members heads or assisting in the watering of the seeds?

Food and Beverage trained GM's see things differently than those coming from the golf side...


More memberships should be made aware of this fact.

Roger,

Don't get ur panties in a bunch. I know of a case where the GM led a locker room renovation.  Fine wood ain't cheap.  Everyone spends other people's money more freely. 

[Dave Doxey]

Imagine if the same money was spent instead on improving the course.


I join for the golf course.  I can find a lot of fine buildings/restaurants elsewhere.


That aside, debt is the killer of many clubs & courses, especially in the current difficult golf financial environment.

[John Kavanaugh]

You join for the course, you stay for your friends.  As we get older the clubhouse plays a more vital role.

[archie_struthers]

 






Go small ......separate the golf from banquet facilities if they are part of the business


Don't forget parking

[Buck Wolter]

Aren't most successful projects the result of a lightning strike?

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