[Tom_Doak]

I picked this note out of an old thread that I'd missed.

Strange beast links golf. Sometimes when it's calm and the summer sun is shining it seems sooo easy-peasy and you whizz around with a smile. Sometimes however, when it's blowin' and wet and cold it's bloody hard going, miserable even. After a while though you develop a kind of sixth sense, call it nous, when you pretty much know when you initially get out of the car or you're on the putting green that's it's gonna be a tough old day or a really tough old day and your nous kicks-in and your expectations adjust accordingly, or at least they should. Bit like if an old chap hanging around the clubhouse or the pro-shop taps the end of his nose with his index finger and whispers something like "It's (say) a 5-over day today laddie" it's worth paying attention otherewise there's a pretty good chance of disapointment, score wise at least. Sometimes folk talk about 'personal par', a concept maybe more relevant on a hugely variable conditions wise links couse than any other. atb

It occurs to me that much of the appeal of links golf is exactly this variability of conditions from one day to the next.  No one would play the game if the weather were always vile and it was difficult to finish 18 holes at all; we need the calm days to give us hope.  But how boring would it be for a good player if the conditions were always flat and calm?

Links courses are more exciting because you are not playing the same course from one day to the next.

[Craig Disher]

I would also throw in a vote for match play on links courses. I find it much more fun to match myself against a friend than a score that I previously carded. I just spent 4 days in Cornwall with weather that varied from vile to barely acceptable. A round of match play made it worth going out; playing on my own would have seemed pointless. Both of us could grimace when the wind was in our faces and would applaud a ball kept on the fairway as much as an exceptionally long drive. When I came back to E. Sussex and much better weather, the previous week let me keep a balance. I did "whiz around with a smile" but I wouldn't have minded a bit of rain and a stiff breeze.

[Peter Pallotta]

Tom - and so, on non-links courses and in the many places where the weather/conditions aren't so variable, what elements/features come close to replicating that playing evironment, ie the experience of a different course from one day to the next? Well, I'm not sure, but I think I know what elements/features *don't* support such replication -- thick rough, water, elevated greens, multiple tees, fairways with no rumples or cants,  90 degree doglegs, large greenside bunkers, dramatically contoured greens, excessive length, too many short Par 4s, more than 3 Par 5s, and containment mounding.
Peter

[Carl Johnson]

I would also throw in a vote for match play on links courses. I find it much more fun to match myself against a friend than a score that I previously carded. . . .

Agreed 100%.  As an American ("United States of" variety) I've played only about 25 rounds of links golf (in Scotland and Northern Ireland).  Also, here at home I play only match play or an equivalent.  Sure, I "post" a medal score for handicap purposes, but that's not the score I "shot" in the medal play sense, given ESC limits on occasion, conceded putts, unfinished holes, and so on.  Links courses are double that, at least, given the variability of conditions.  Now, I've never played in both a strong cold wind and strong cold rain at the same time, but I've played in strong cold wind, and strong semi-warm rain, along with some so-so cool-ish days and some beautiful, calm weather.  The variability is an interesting challenge, because it's another factor to think about, along with the bumps, run-outs, etc., on links courses.

That that having been said, I'm not sure whether I'd enjoy playing links golf year-round, since I've never done it.  When I have played on golf trips to GB, the short-term novelty has been appealing.  This is not to say I'd not enjoy it on a regular basis--I just don't know.

Back to match play, the men I've traveled with have always played match play in GB and not focused on score.  Moreover, when we're played two rounds a day (which now I don't think I could do), we play the second as foursomes (alternate shot), which we never play at our clubs in the USA, and where the "medal" score is irrelevant for any one player.  I've always enjoyed the links experiences, and I believe the others in our groups have, too.

[DMoriarty]

Perhaps one factor that makes links courses so appealing is that they have to be at least somewhat playable and enjoyable in very severe weather conditions, even for average players.  Then when the weather isn't severe such courses are still loads of fun, but aren't excessively difficult.

If a course is a burden and a slog in perfect weather, it has no appeal to me.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Carl,

In 2011 I got to the end of the season having played about 70 rounds on about 20 different courses before I realised that I hadn't played a single round away from the links. I could forego all other golf for just the links. There is nothing better.

I am quite sure you'd get used to it day in day out.

Thriving purely on feel is the essence of the game for me.

[Matt MacIver]

I have several friends who want to play the same course every day, including the weather and the tee boxes. They don't mind if the pins are moved but essentialy [size=78%]they want the same test every day so they can measure themselves to a standard. [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]I hate talking gca with them. [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%] I think they are closet bowlers. [/size]

[Tom_Doak]

Perhaps one factor that makes links courses so appealing is that they have to be at least somewhat playable and enjoyable in very severe weather conditions, even for average players.  Then when the weather isn't severe such courses are still loads of fun, but aren't excessively difficult.

If a course is a burden and a slog in perfect weather, it has no appeal to me.

Yes, that was one of the main things I learned from spending a year overseas.  If you just build every hole so it's playable in a 30-MPH downwind, you've got something.


[And I'm sure someone will wonder:  but no, that's not a typo, I mean downwind.  Into the wind, it's just a matter of taking enough club, but it's never impossible to get the ball to stop when it lands.]

[Sean_A]

Perhaps one factor that makes links courses so appealing is that they have to be at least somewhat playable and enjoyable in very severe weather conditions, even for average players.  Then when the weather isn't severe such courses are still loads of fun, but aren't excessively difficult.

If a course is a burden and a slog in perfect weather, it has no appeal to me.

Yes, that was one of the main things I learned from spending a year overseas.  If you just build every hole so it's playable in a 30-MPH downwind, you've got something.


[And I'm sure someone will wonder:  but no, that's not a typo, I mean downwind.  Into the wind, it's just a matter of taking enough club, but it's never impossible to get the ball to stop when it lands.]

Tom


If courses are made to be playable in 30mph many people think they are too easy...a criticism I hear about Castle Stuart (which I think is misguided).  One course which impressed me a load for its playability is West Cornwall.  Southerness too gives the player a fighting chance in high winds. 


Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

I would also throw in a vote for match play on links courses. I find it much more fun to match myself against a friend than a score that I previously carded. I just spent 4 days in Cornwall with weather that varied from vile to barely acceptable. A round of match play made it worth going out; playing on my own would have seemed pointless. Both of us could grimace when the wind was in our faces and would applaud a ball kept on the fairway as much as an exceptionally long drive. When I came back to E. Sussex and much better weather, the previous week let me keep a balance. I did "whiz around with a smile" but I wouldn't have minded a bit of rain and a stiff breeze.

While I am a big proponent of match play, this post is mostly just reflective of a state of mind.  Whether you are having fun is all in your head, opponent or no. 


I went and played in a severe wind a couple of weeks ago with the professional at the club I was visiting, and we both had a blast.  We didn't have a match going or anything, we were both just trying to hit the shots we were faced with in 30+ mph winds.  I scored quite well for the conditions even though I wasn't particularly thinking about my score.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom

If courses are made to be playable in 30mph many people think they are too easy...a criticism I hear about Castle Stuart (which I think is misguided).  One course which impressed me a load for its playability is West Cornwall.  Southerness too gives the player a fighting chance in high winds. 

Sean:


I'm not talking so much about width here ... I think people critique Castle Stuart more for its width off the tee than for the approach shots you have to play.  St. Andrews, for one, is perfectly playable in severe winds, which is why it's so sad that they keep calling play when it gets windy.

[Ken Moum]

I think they are closet bowlers.

LOL....

I'd imagine they believe in proportional punishment for bad shots too.

I'm reminded of how crazy I had to be this spring on the day we arrived in Golspie. It was spitting rain and the wind was howling.

But I couldn't stand sitting around, I had to go see if I could do it. My buddy walked in after six holes,   but i carried on. No idea what I shot, didn't attempt to keep score.

As Tom said, I couldn't do it every day, but playing a course that makes it possible is a delight.
K

[Paul Gray]

As a links golfer, I'm always amused by the "it wasn't windy enough" comments from visitors. I entirely understand the sentiment if you only play links golf on occasion, but for those of us for whom a three or four club wind is a normal day, a relatively calm day is a joy. But the essence of the thread is absolutely correct; it's the windy days which make the calm days so enjoyable.

[William_G]

I picked this note out of an old thread that I'd missed.

Strange beast links golf. Sometimes when it's calm and the summer sun is shining it seems sooo easy-peasy and you whizz around with a smile. Sometimes however, when it's blowin' and wet and cold it's bloody hard going, miserable even. After a while though you develop a kind of sixth sense, call it nous, when you pretty much know when you initially get out of the car or you're on the putting green that's it's gonna be a tough old day or a really tough old day and your nous kicks-in and your expectations adjust accordingly, or at least they should. Bit like if an old chap hanging around the clubhouse or the pro-shop taps the end of his nose with his index finger and whispers something like "It's (say) a 5-over day today laddie" it's worth paying attention otherewise there's a pretty good chance of disapointment, score wise at least. Sometimes folk talk about 'personal par', a concept maybe more relevant on a hugely variable conditions wise links couse than any other. atb

It occurs to me that much of the appeal of links golf is exactly this variability of conditions from one day to the next.  No one would play the game if the weather were always vile and it was difficult to finish 18 holes at all; we need the calm days to give us hope.  But how boring would it be for a good player if the conditions were always flat and calm?

Links courses are more exciting because you are not playing the same course from one day to the next.

that is exactly the essence of golf as it was meant to be

[Jay Mickle]

In May I did a 16 links journey around Ireland and took my hickory clubs, not to bring the courses to their knees with the old sticks but rather to enjoy 2 weeks of shot making. I had a blast. More than a couple of the caddies we had were surprised at the ground game I played with my 24 degree approach cleek anywhere form 165 yards to just off the green. Hitting a great wedge shot is in its own way very rewarding but not nearly so much fun as running a ball over humps and bumps watching it appear and disappear only to roll up inside your partners perfect lob.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom - and so, on non-links courses and in the many places where the weather/conditions aren't so variable, what elements/features come close to replicating that playing evironment, ie the experience of a different course from one day to the next?

Peter:


I've always thought the three biggest contributors to variety on an inland course are:


1.  Contour in the greens, so you have a variety of putts and recovery shots,
2.  Undulating terrain, so you have a variety of lies from which to play your second shots, and
3.  Texture and native plant materials in the roughs, so you have unpredictable lies when you go astray.


In other words, everything at Crystal Downs, which is also quite a windy spot.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Tom. I'd note the obvious in saying that those three elements are precisely what disappeared with the advent of 'golf construction technology', ie massive earthmovers flattened out fairways, extensive irrigation systems supported thick and uniform rough, and new cultivars and mowers made greens so fast that the contours got flattened out.

(Sometimes it is truly stunning to witness how those who make their livings in a particular art-craft can so totally misunderstand its essence and purpose; it's almost as if they were being paid to get it so wrong...)

Btw, I read on another thread about your discussions at Crystal Downs. I hope they prove fruitful. For this one-time player of the course, it was so clear that the rough that borders every fairway was never meant to be there.
Peter

[Bob Montle]

I've had limited experience with links golf, just three golfing trips to Scotland in the past few years.
But those rounds have all been among the most enjoyable round in my 54 years of golfing.

Here are some of the things that jump out to me as to why I love links golf.  (Not all maybe unique to links)

The tactical challenge of combating the wind.
No cart paths.
Walking
Tees close to greens
Blind or semi blind shots
Putting from 50 yds out
Random bounces on your drives from the rumpled fairways
Being able to aim 25 yds away from the green and being able to bounce the ball onto the green
Highly contoured greens
Playing by feel instead of yardage markers
Watching your low 3-iron shots roll and roll and roll!
Watching your friend try to hit a wedge into the wind and having it blow back at his feet, then putting his ball onto the green for him.

I enjoyed each and every round, regardless of sun, rain, wind or what was most common: all three.

[Niall C]

Perhaps one factor that makes links courses so appealing is that they have to be at least somewhat playable and enjoyable in very severe weather conditions, even for average players.  Then when the weather isn't severe such courses are still loads of fun, but aren't excessively difficult.

If a course is a burden and a slog in perfect weather, it has no appeal to me.

David,


That's a very perceptive comment about playability. What (IMO) makes a traditional links playable in bad weather isn't width a la Castle Stuart but that instead courses haven't been designed with set landing areas in mind. When you can have a two club wind behind one day and a four club wind against the next there needs to be flexibility. This modern idea that there is a nice plateau landing area out there and you play the appropriate tee so you can get there really doesn't apply. Basically a links fairway is one big landing strip where usually you are going to get humps and bumps where ever you land. If you think about a lot of links courses they don't have a lot of cross hazards other than from off the tee or the occasional burn while the greens are generally open fronted to allow for approaches from all sorts of distances.


Keeping the ball in play is part of the challenge but I tend to think that instead of the modern idea of big wide fairays the accepted practice is use whatever club does the job. If that means hitting an iron instead of driver then so be it. And if hitting an iron means you can't reach the green with your next shot then you have to try and scramble. That's not "regulation" golf but generally how it is played by the locals, again in my opinion.


Niall

[Thomas Dai]

The quote from myself referenced by Tom above was written more in relation to a players personal mental approach, his/her expectations, his/her attitude to course management and the like - the brain game, the 15th club and all that - rather than links golf specifically although daily or even part-daily changes in playing conditions are generally more likely on a links, which in turn should mean more flexibility in the brain game when in comes to attempting to unravel the great puzzle that is the game we all love.


As to the appeal of links golf itself, well variable conditions and the challenges that presents to both the physcial execution of a shot and the use of the brain to work out the best possible shot to attempt in the conditions is important. It's not the most important aspect to me though. That's the consistently firm ground conditions that playing on sand provides and what that entails and whilst such conditions are also usually availble on heathland courses as well, they are not usually found on a parkland.


However, too much of one thing is not necessary perfect. I used to play almost all my golf on two top echelon links courses, courses much admired herein. After a while I didn't appreciate what I had access too. A few minutes on a soft, wet, lush, tree lined parkland soon brought me back to reality though.


Atb

[Niall C]

Sean


Re Castle Stuart and its critics, I agree with Tom, most of the negative comment isn't about being too easy but too wide. In my opinion this makes it pretty bland for repeat play. I know that sounds ridiculous for such a beautiful property with its superb conditioning but a lot of the shots are fairly mundane once you've got over the WOW factor.


Niall

[Sean_A]

Niall


Isn't "too wide" code for "too easy"? 


These things always revolve around personal opinion.  My opinion is that the vast majority of links, especially well known links, are too narrow for conditions which are too common to ignore.  I think one reason for the narrowness is the powers that be don't want the courses to be perceived as too easy.


Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean


Or put it another way, is "too wide" a code for "boring" ? On previous Castle Stuart threads I've suggested at CS they have largely done nothing with that width and it's only there to let folk blast away without due care or attention. I don't think it any coincidence that the better holes at CS are the ones by the water that are constrained in some way.


As for traditional links, I don't think 25/35 yard wide fairways with 5/10 yards of semi on either side is too narrow. Particularly if you are hittng the fairway at an angle but each to their own.


Niall

[Craig Disher]

Niall


Isn't "too wide" code for "too easy"? 


These things always revolve around personal opinion.  My opinion is that the vast majority of links, especially well known links, are too narrow for conditions which are too common to ignore.  I think one reason for the narrowness is the powers that be don't want the courses to be perceived as too easy.


Ciao

I agree completely. A few weeks ago I came across a 1931 aerial from the BritainFromAbove website which showed a good part of Littlestone GC. Not only was there hardly any rough - serious, knee-high rough which now exists everywhere on the course - off the fairways, there were at least twice the number of fairway bunkers. The large flat piece of land that holds the 1st, 2nd and 18th fairways appeared to be cut to the same height with bunkers, rather than long grass suggesting lines of play.

I had several conversations years ago with the greens chairman and other committee members about the long rough. Members and many visiting societies had complained about it and it was clear to me and other members that cutting it back and restoring some of the lost bunkers (many of their locations were still visible) would improve the course and speed up play. The reply was as you suggest - "too easy", "taking the teeth out of the course", etc. Of course, nothing was done and in spite of the wonderful greens, the real character of the course - as MacKenzie saw it - is still missing.

[Sean_A]

Niall


Or put it another way, is "too wide" a code for "boring" ?

There is nothing more boring than searching through thick rough with the knowledge that
1. The ball is probably lost or
2. if found, its a hack out or
3. if found, its a pick up

Rough is the biggest turn-off for links golf.

This is not good golf so far as I am concerned and I couldn't even begin to count how many times a ball was lost when the shot should have been accommodated by the maintenance.  Its much more common than thinking that a ball deserved to be lost  
What is the solution? Allow much more for space for 20mph wind, hard and sloping fairways. It is exceedingly rare that courses with 25 (stupidly narrow in most cases) yard fairways will also have 25 yards (total) of rough which will allow decent recoveries...which would be acceptable if not ideal. Some combo of light rough and fairway totalling a minumum of 50 yards is in order most of the time. 

Ciao

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