[Mark Chaplin]

Are Zach Johnson or Speith "bombers"?

[Brent Hutto]

Not only is the leaderboard full of non bombers, notice hiw as the 4th round rolls on the major championship winners collect near the top.

[David_Tepper]

"Are Zach Johnson or Speith "bombers"?"

Mark C. -

No, they are the exceptions that prove the rule!

But seriously, to paraphrase and expand upon the late Harvey Penick, "a great wedge player and a great putter is a match for anyone."

DT

[Matthew Essig]

And the non-bomber wins!

[David_Tepper]

And Zach Jackson also won at AGNC, another bomber's paradise. Just shows you a great wedge player & putter can compete anywhere.

[Jim Nugent]

And Zach Jackson also won at AGNC, another bomber's paradise. Just shows you a great wedge player & putter can compete anywhere.

Zack won at ANGC under awful conditions.  That neutralized the advantage long hitters usually have there: they could not reach the par 5s.  IIRC Zach birdied something like 3/4ths of all par 5s anyway, with great wedge play and putting. 

[Brent Hutto]

Wasn't Augusta also wet and slow the year Zach won there?


Perhaps we're seeing one possible formula for letting non-bombers compete with bombers. Big greens with large-scale contours, rough that you can generally play out of, firm fairways and (possibly) not too firm greens.

[Peter Pallotta]

Brent - my first thought is that amongst those elements "the (possibly) not too firm greens" is perhaps most important. I'm reminded of what Lee Trevino said about his US Open victory over Jack Nicklaus in the playoff at Merion, i.e. that he was lucky it rained the night before, since without it he wouldn't have been able to hold many of those Merion greens, and would've been at a great disadvantage against Jack -- who not only was coming in with less club, but who also hit all his irons very high (unlike Lee's low/boring trajectory).   
 
Peter

[David_Tepper]

Z. Johnson one-putted 4 of the last 5 holes he played today. And L. Oosthuizen took 5 putts on his last 2 holes. That's the tournament right there! 

[Tom_Doak]

Z. Johnson one-putted 4 of the last 5 holes he played today. And L. Oosthuizen took 5 putts on his last 2 holes. That's the tournament right there!

Zach also had 15 putts through his first 12 holes, at the point where I left my computer to start watching this morning.  He made a LOT of putts.


Meanwhile, Dustin Johnson finished 65-69-75-75.  Eleven shots out of the playoff.


I did think Spieth made the wrong play off #17 tee, and that if he'd been more familiar with the course, he would have been more comfortable driving down the 17th fairway instead of going "safely" over into #2.  But he was also unfortunate to have a lot of weather in his face on that tee.

[Tom_Doak]

Perhaps we're seeing one possible formula for letting non-bombers compete with bombers. Big greens with large-scale contours, rough that you can generally play out of, firm fairways and (possibly) not too firm greens.

That's my work, in a nutshell.  But that's why they don't let me design championship courses. 

[Bill_McBride]

Perhaps we're seeing one possible formula for letting non-bombers compete with bombers. Big greens with large-scale contours, rough that you can generally play out of, firm fairways and (possibly) not too firm greens.

That's my work, in a nutshell.  But that's why they don't let me design championship courses. 

Excuse me, but hasn't Pacific Dunes hosted some important events?

[David_Tepper]

"Zach also had 15 putts through his first 12 holes, at the point where I left my computer to start watching this morning.  He made a LOT of putts.  Meanwhile, Dustin Johnson finished 65-69-75-75.  Eleven shots out of the playoff."

Zach had 31 putts over 22 holes today, 26 in his 18-hole round. That is going to win a lot of tournaments.

While Dustin did crash and burn, there were plenty of bombers (Oosthuzen, Leishman, Day, Rose, Scott, Garcia Koepka, etc.) in the Top 10 on the leaderboard.

P.S. It should also be noted that, along with Jordan S., Zach J. played in the John Deere last week. Lack of practice on TOC didn't seem to hurt their performance much.

[Doug Siebert]

I did think Spieth made the wrong play off #17 tee, and that if he'd been more familiar with the course, he would have been more comfortable driving down the 17th fairway instead of going "safely" over into #2.  But he was also unfortunate to have a lot of weather in his face on that tee.

Pretty much everyone was playing over there the last few hours of regulation, so if he played it wrong so did a lot of others.

[Doug Siebert]

Gotta give up for Zach since he's a local boy.  He's so local that the local news will update you on what he did in any tournament he's in, whether he's winning the Open or missing the cut at the Honda Classic. 

I was actually thinking about this thread when he took the lead with a birdie on the 9th, since he's no one's idea of a bomber.  Maybe there's something to the soft greens theory, but since half the holes were wedge for him it wouldn't have made all that much difference.  On the holes where he had a really long approach like 13 and 17, he bogeyed anyway so I'm not sure a concrete green would have made much difference to his score today.

[Tom_Doak]

I did think Spieth made the wrong play off #17 tee, and that if he'd been more familiar with the course, he would have been more comfortable driving down the 17th fairway instead of going "safely" over into #2.  But he was also unfortunate to have a lot of weather in his face on that tee.

Pretty much everyone was playing over there the last few hours of regulation, so if he played it wrong so did a lot of others.

Yes, I saw that.  However Oosthuizen, playing right behind Spieth, went into the 17th fairway and gave himself a much better angle.  Spieth did seem to be more comfortable playing way to the left coming home, at the 15th, 16th, and 18th (!?) also.  But he seemed to hit it right where he aimed on 17 with little to no draw.

[Tom_Doak]

  But that's why they don't let me design championship courses. 

Excuse me, but hasn't Pacific Dunes hosted some important events?

Yes, and to the extent that those events were important, it proves that you can play a championship on a course that isn't designed specially for one at all.  But they are never going to play a big "championship" on a course unless they have altered it to their idea of what suits a big championship.

[Bryan Izatt]

I did think Spieth made the wrong play off #17 tee, and that if he'd been more familiar with the course, he would have been more comfortable driving down the 17th fairway instead of going "safely" over into #2.  But he was also unfortunate to have a lot of weather in his face on that tee.

Pretty much everyone was playing over there the last few hours of regulation, so if he played it wrong so did a lot of others.

Maybe they'd heard that Phil couldn't play off the balcony of the Old Course Hotel and decided they didn't want to join him up there.

[Niall C]

I did think Spieth made the wrong play off #17 tee, and that if he'd been more familiar with the course, he would have been more comfortable driving down the 17th fairway instead of going "safely" over into #2.  But he was also unfortunate to have a lot of weather in his face on that tee.

Pretty much everyone was playing over there the last few hours of regulation, so if he played it wrong so did a lot of others.

And yet in the play off all three players hit the 17th fairway and with the exception of the short hitter decided to play short. Interesting decisions, particularly from Johnston considering he won at Augusta by not going for the par 5's in two but instead relying on his wedge play to get him the 4. You wonder why he didn't employ that strategy on the 17th the same as the other two.


Niall

[Tony_Muldoon]

I did think Spieth made the wrong play off #17 tee, and that if he'd been more familiar with the course, he would have been more comfortable driving down the 17th fairway instead of going "safely" over into #2.  But he was also unfortunate to have a lot of weather in his face on that tee.

Pretty much everyone was playing over there the last few hours of regulation, so if he played it wrong so did a lot of others.

And yet in the play off all three players hit the 17th fairway and with the exception of the short hitter decided to play short. Interesting decisions, particularly from Johnston considering he won at Augusta by not going for the par 5's in two but instead relying on his wedge play to get him the 4. You wonder why he didn't employ that strategy on the 17th the same as the other two.


Niall

Given that he finished short of the bunker and a pull tends to run out further than a straight hit and I still think Zac was laying up?

[Carl Rogers]

  But that's why they don't let me design championship courses. 

Excuse me, but hasn't Pacific Dunes hosted some important events?

Tom, I thought Renaissance Club was designed to seek "large" championships.

Yes, and to the extent that those events were important, it proves that you can play a championship on a course that isn't designed specially for one at all.  But they are never going to play a big "championship" on a course unless they have altered it to their idea of what suits a big championship.

[Ryan Coles]

What alterations were made to RCD to enable hosting the Irish Open?

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