[Rees Milikin]

Pat's question about post 60's holes worth templating got me thinking about any holes that should be a template and wanted to share one that I came across:


This is the green of the par 5 3rd at West Bend CC (Langford & Moreau), just north of Milwaukee.  It is probably one of the most unique greens I have ever played and thought that it would make a great template for any sort of par.  Where the flag is placed (numerous pin positions) really makes for an interesting thought process on what type of club/shot to use and was wondering if anyone has seen a green like this and if you think this would be a hole worth templating.


You play this hole from the left side of the picture.

[Nigel Islam]

Rees that green is amazing!

[RJ_Daley]

Rees, I'm curious what name you would give to this hole as a template.  I've played it 3X and I agree that it is special indeed.  But, I think one could b
say it has vague similarities to both a "double plateau" or a "Biarritz" green.  IIRC, it plays somewhere around 210yards from member tees.  While double plateau greens are found on par 5 or 4s, I think the concept works here.  Langford and Morreau obviously liked the concept of a step sweeping fall away to another level, as found on Lawsonia 6, abd 12, a lesser extent on the "boxcar' hole, and even its practice putting green which has been such for at least 50 years that I know of. 

There must be one of the GCA regulars who has played the WBCC 2rd many times and has some endearing name for it! 

[jeffwarne]

Ok I'm confused
Rees states it's a par 5, RJ says it's 210 yards.
Rees says it plays from left side-Is the second picture from the back of the green?
Rees says it's the 3rd holes, RJ asks if GCAers have a name for WBCC's second.


Of course I could just have a reading comprehension issue

[Ronald Montesano]

second picture is from back of green.

From the website: "The two-tiered green on West Bend's third hole is a tribute to Langford's ability to make golfers think. According to Club legend, the 6th hole had a similar two-tiered green. A disparaging remark made by Byron Nelson when he played the course in '47 caused such a stir that the green was redesigned to be more user-friendly."

MY RANT: Why some clubs won't put a course map and scorecard on their sites. Are you that private? Do you not feel that non-members might like to see your place, that it paints you in a good light to do such a genteel thing?

the scorecard:  https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/westbendcc/detailedscorecard.htm

the google:  https://www.google.com/maps/place/West+Bend+Country+Club/@43.4023637,-88.2376362,1293m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x28a24edb2f68af4e!6m1!1e1

[Nigel Islam]

second picture is from back of green.

From the website: "The two-tiered green on West Bend's third hole is a tribute to Langford's ability to make golfers think. According to Club legend, the 6th hole had a similar two-tiered green. A disparaging remark made by Byron Nelson when he played the course in '47 caused such a stir that the green was redesigned to be more user-friendly."

MY RANT: Why some clubs won't put a course map and scorecard on their sites. Are you that private? Do you not feel that non-members might like to see your place, that it paints you in a good light to do such a genteel thing?

the scorecard:  https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/westbendcc/detailedscorecard.htm

the google:  https://www.google.com/maps/place/West+Bend+Country+Club/@43.4023637,-88.2376362,1293m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x28a24edb2f68af4e!6m1!1e1

I'm with you there brother!

[Rees Milikin]

Ok I'm confused
Rees states it's a par 5, RJ says it's 210 yards.
Rees says it plays from left side-Is the second picture from the back of the green?
Rees says it's the 3rd holes, RJ asks if GCAers have a name for WBCC's second.


Of course I could just have a reading comprehension issue

Jeff & RJ


The hole I am talking about is the par 5 3rd hole, which is a shorter par 5 (510-520 from the back), so it allows decent hitters to reach in two.  The first photo shows an angle where you play the hole coming in from the left side and the second photo is from the bottom corner.  What I was thinking while I played this hole, is that it would make for a great green template for any variation of par.  The ability to place numerous pin positions and accept shots from a wide range of clubs, would make this interesting to play no matter what you are faced with from the tee box.


The other hole description that Ronald pulled from their website is the par 5 6th hole (550-560 from the back), which based upon your landing area determines if you can reach in two, which can be pretty tough.  If the Byron Nelson comment is true, then it seems that they would have repeated a distinct green shape for the two par 5's, which is a little strange to put them that close together on the course, but they thought highly enough of it to repeat.


RJ, as for the name, maybe "Drop - The drop in the green" or "Run - The ability to run the ball into any pin placement".  And I see some where you are drawing the Double Plateau & Biarritz comparisons, but I think this is unique both visually & playability to be given a different name.

[Jason Thurman]

This green appears in photos to be a bit reminiscent of the 9th at Clovernook, which is a 470 yard par 4 today but was originally listed as a par 5 on Langford's routing map.


I somehow don't have a decent photo of it, but it's low in the front right and back left with a big ridge on the front left part of the green and a huge hump in the back right corner. Much of the green slopes away from the landing area as a result, and getting close to a back left pin requires using the slopes to feed the ball there (much to the chagrin of a handful of low-handicapper members).


It's hard to tell from photos, but I think the green at West Bend is oriented a little differently and the elevated portions of the green may be set at slightly different angles. However, the strategy of how the contours relate to the strategy of how to access different portions of the green with approach shots appears to be similar.

[Nigel Islam]

This green appears in photos to be a bit reminiscent of the 9th at Clovernook, which is a 470 yard par 4 today but was originally listed as a par 5 on Langford's routing map.


I somehow don't have a decent photo of it, but it's low in the front right and back left with a big ridge on the front left part of the green and a huge hump in the back right corner. Much of the green slopes away from the landing area as a result, and getting close to a back left pin requires using the slopes to feed the ball there (much to the chagrin of a handful of low-handicapper members).


It's hard to tell from photos, but I think the green at West Bend is oriented a little differently and the elevated portions of the green may be set at slightly different angles. However, the strategy of how the contours relate to the strategy of how to access different portions of the green with approach shots appears to be similar.

I recall that hole doubling as a swimming pool as well. I can't remember the green but I think that is when it really started to pour. I just remember the green being big.

[Carl Rogers]

Strantz's 3rd hole at Royal New Kent is kind of similar, but more primevally over the top.

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