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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lancaster vs Chambers
« on: July 10, 2015, 02:54:59 PM »
Because of time constraints and life commitments we often play close to home. We play the hand dealt us. I'm not faulting Lancaster for why it exits, but I've got to wonder how it or the game survived itself so long. I don't think I've ever been stuck by the lack of fun so hard in my life as when comparing the course to Chambers. One of my BFF's is an Amish dude and Lancaster reminds me of how he describes his Mother. I thought this would be a comparison but there is no. Or is there?
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J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 03:52:43 PM »
John,   Can I assume you have never played Lancaster? I think it is one of Flynn's masterpiece courses. It uses the available property very well. It has 17 holes which are quite good. #13 is the only clunker IMO. Nice mix of long and short par 4's. Different length par 3's. Greens are pretty interesting . If it were in Chicago it would be top 5.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 04:03:29 PM »
Obviously I haven't played it or I wouldn't have started such a stupid thread.  I haven't played Chambers either.  All I can say for certain is that this is unwatchable.
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J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 04:23:49 PM »
John,    Sometimes TV doesn't do a course justice - this is certainly the case with Lancaster. The movement to the property is very good and the holes utilize the elevation changes really well. The short par 4's were really very fun #3-5. In fact Tom Doak listed LCC as one of his top 31 Gourmet Choice courses. I hope to play Chambers in a couple of weeks - they appear to be 2 very different courses.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 04:40:06 PM »
Damnit, my Confidential Guide is out of reach.  I am glad I formed my opinion before I knew the course was 31F.  Ignorance is bliss.
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mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 04:43:17 PM »
Give it time. By Sunday I expect a shootout which the course causes. That will be fun to watch.
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AKA Mayday

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 05:21:28 PM »
A question for Joe Bausch. How similar is the terrain to Evansville's Rolling Hills?  I'm not a fan of down hill tee, up hill approach.
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Brent Hutto

Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 05:30:21 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on July 10, 2015, 05:21:28 PM
A question for Joe Bausch. How similar is the terrain to Evansville's Rolling Hills?  I'm not a fan of down hill tee, up hill approach.


There are a lot of otherwise charming older courses with that steady diet of PAr 4's that are routed to be whatever yardage it takes to play a tee shot down and back up, with the next tee being near the green to offer yet another down and up to the next ridge.


It is the most tedious way I can imagine to route a course over pleasantly rolling land which features more or less regular ridges.
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Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 07:34:01 PM »
Quote from: J_ Crisham on July 10, 2015, 03:52:43 PM
John,   Can I assume you have never played Lancaster? I think it is one of Flynn's masterpiece courses. It uses the available property very well. It has 17 holes which are quite good. #13 is the only clunker IMO. Nice mix of long and short par 4's. Different length par 3's. Greens are pretty interesting . If it were in Chicago it would be top 5.




I would like to second this, the course is one of Flynns great ones. 13 is the only weak hole on the course. It utilizes the natural flow of the land. True it is not pinball like CB but this course is no red haired step child.
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Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 08:55:24 PM »
Brent, I appreciate your comment. I think you would find that Lancaster is far more diverse than the type of course you describe.
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Brent Hutto

Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 09:12:35 PM »
Quote from: Rory Connaughton on July 10, 2015, 08:55:24 PM
Brent, I appreciate your comment. I think you would find that Lancaster is far more diverse than the type of course you describe.


Definitely. From what I can see on TV Lancaster is the opposite of the kind of course I was describing.


Maybe some people would rather have one after another down-then-up hole, taking on the hills perpendicularly. But I think all those cambered landing zones and sidehill lies are pretty brilliant.
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Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 09:29:23 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on July 10, 2015, 05:21:28 PM
A question for Joe Bausch. How similar is the terrain to Evansville's Rolling Hills?  I'm not a fan of down hill tee, up hill approach.


RH's multiple down-then-up holes can double nicely as tobaggan runs.  Not so much at Lancaster, unless some local farmer can install a steering wheel.   ;)
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 10:02:55 PM »
Jaka.  I think LCC is, simply stated, one of he best courses I've ever played. It has everything you could want- strategy, great ground movement, great beauty, and ability to be enjoyed by golfers of many skill levels. 


The course has had a TON of rain likely, which changed its speed.   Let's see what Sunday brings (zero rain in the forecast)


FWIW, I've also walked much of Chambers Bay.   I'd pick LCC 10 out of 10 rounds. 


PS.  I've asked many local PGA pros what course they'd want to play "for life".  Sure, you get Merion East and Pine Valley.  But I think the most frequent choice  has been LCC. 


« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 10:08:25 PM by Dan Herrmann »
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2015, 10:12:19 PM »
How can bad golfers hit all those uphill approaches from unlevel lies?  At Chambers I don't recall a single forced carry where LCC looks like a worms timeshare development.
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2015, 10:17:57 PM »
John.  LCC, actually has different tee boxes, so forced carries aren't a factor for less skilled golfers.    Really cool concept. ;)
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Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 10:26:14 PM »
A worms timeshare development, you need to get out more and not believe everything you think you see on TV. As one old GCAer would say the land is fit for a course. There are , as indicated, numerous tee boxes for every level of player. From what I saw at Chambers a new golfer would have serious issues. Lancaster has some great slopes but not anything that would lead one to quit the game or sink to alcoholism after a round. It's not like Flynn manufactured the hills , he fit the holes perfectly into the area he was given.  Isn't PV a hilly area?  Dornoch has some great rises and drops, does it not?


Sorry I cannot buy into wormville.
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We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2015, 10:31:29 PM »
John. I've been to both LCC and CB.   My opinion isn't based on TV.   
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 10:35:53 PM »
Quote from: Dan Herrmann on July 10, 2015, 10:31:29 PM
John. I've been to both LCC and CB.   My opinion isn't based on TV.


Are you saying that Laura enjoyed LCC over Chambers as much as you?
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2015, 11:06:15 PM »
Absolutely yes. 
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2015, 11:12:48 PM »
Well, well, I could be wrong. Look forward to watching tomorrow.
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2015, 11:20:26 PM »
"Ignorance is bliss."

A perpetual state of bliss must be wonderful. ;)
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William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2015, 12:39:26 AM »
Furyk loves LCC, and it is definitely a classic lush layout...best for good golf with pencil and scorecard, no doubt

no comparison, only that they are both in the US
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It's all about the golf!

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2015, 03:05:51 PM »
I'm watching this thing again and see nothing but forced carries. What hole should I be waiting for to turn my mind?
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2015, 05:24:32 PM »
Maybe there's a hole in that bottle of Makers Mark?

You can't appreciate the finer points, of LCC, through HDTV.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lancaster vs Chambers
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2015, 03:22:03 PM »
I both played at Lancaster and caddied during a competitive event, and also caddied at Chambers during the US AM 5 years ago.


Two completely different golf courses and really impossible to compare.

I think both are fantastic golf courses on two opposite ends of the spectrum.


If Lancaster isn't right behind Merion and PV in Philadelphia area golf, then its damm close. I'm not sure there's a better routed 9 holes then the front 9 at Lancaster. The green sites are all wonderful as well.


I didn't get a chance to watch much of the coverage this weekend, but sometimes you need to see a course in person to really appreciate it.



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You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

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