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DMoriarty

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Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2015, 12:29:16 AM »
Like virtually every writer of the pre_1910 era, our Rational Golf writer cited Myopia and Garden City as head and shoulders the best courses of the time

Virtually every writer?  I don't think this is accurate.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2015, 08:14:50 AM »
What is the date on that article, Jim?

Joe,
Feb. 28, 1909, Pg. 1, BDE

ed: in 1912 a man named Steven Armstrong seems to have taken over the "Rational Golf" column from Jason Rogers. I haven't seen any golf course reports, only instruction, equipment, etc.,
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 08:36:16 AM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2015, 09:35:26 AM »
Joe -

Do we know why the series was called "Rational Golf"?

Bob

His approach?



The Globe? The Boston Globe?

I thought these were in the Christian Science Monitor....
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2015, 09:57:10 AM »
I'm thinking these articles might have been syndicated, Dan.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2015, 10:12:15 AM »
Jason Rogers was also the publisher of the New York Globe.

Lower r.hand corner of the page, six senteces up form the bottom.

http://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/83226087/
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2015, 10:28:32 AM »
Jason Rogers was also the publisher of the New York Globe.

Lower r.hand corner of the page, six senteces up form the bottom.

http://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/83226087/

Thanks.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2015, 10:58:58 AM »
Jason Rogers was also the publisher of the New York Globe.

Lower r.hand corner of the page, six senteces up form the bottom.

http://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/83226087/

Was the New York Globe a newspaper?  Is this it?:

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84042369/
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2015, 12:05:06 PM »
Joe,
I think so, there's a letter to him on pg. 55.
https://archive.org/details/americasoldestda00glob
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2015, 12:43:01 PM »
So I wonder what moniker, if any, "Straight Drive" Rogers  used at AG? "Far and Sure" would have been perfect.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2015, 12:48:10 PM »
Maybe they used the middle ground to stage the Naval Battles advertised at bottom right of the review.



As for a LIKE button: God, no. Please, no.


I'm not sure that this review is simply based on a diagram and not a personal visit where the writer describes the course built on rolling meadows and rough grass along holes not indicated in the drawing.

As far as commonality of hole descriptions, isn't that simply evidence of the similarity of the golf holes, all laid out to save a fade while punishing anything hit left with recurring OB?  Similarly, the recurring fairway wide cop/cross bunkers don't provide much room for unique descriptors.

I did note on a second reading that the writer cited Apawamis and not Garden City as what he believed to be the second best US course after Myopia and seemed particularly to positively note that only two cop bunkers were in place on that course.

Rather than never having been there, the whole review to me sounds like damning with faint praise
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2015, 01:52:36 PM »
Joe,
I think so, there's a letter to him on pg. 55.
https://archive.org/details/americasoldestda00glob

I think we now know of another newspaper to seek out on microfilm (or hope it gets digitized soon) b/c it could be rich with golf coverage.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2015, 03:25:59 PM »
There is nothing in that description of Chicago Golf Club that couldn't have come directly from any of the other many descriptions of Chicago Golf Club before the Amateur or any of the other tournaments the course regularly hosted. Compared to every other review, the style and tone of the article strongly suggest less familiarity or no familiarity with the actual course. CGC also stands out geographically. None of the other fine Chicago courses are covered, again suggesting a lack of personal experience with the course and area. The timing and content both strongly suggest that Chicago was included not because of personal experience, but rather because it was the site of the Amateur.  

It reads to me that Mike came to this thread with a two-pronged Agenda exemplified by his early comments: 1)  "Wow..not a fan of Chicago Golf Club;" and 2) "Like virtually every writer of the pre_1910 era, our Rational Golf writer cited Myopia and Garden City as head and shoulders the best courses of the time."

The articles themselves support neither point.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2015, 03:40:40 PM »
I think time and progress were making Macdonald ' s 1894 version of Chicago a Victorian relic by 1909.  Certainly it doesn't reflect Macdonald ' s architectural philosophy by that juncture and didn't the club and CBM have Raynor essentially redesign it significantly into almost a brand new course by 1923?

Macdonald himself wrote that the 3 best US courses were generally acknowledged to be Myopia, Garden City, and Chicago in 1904.  I think by 1909 the whole school of steeplechase architecture was falling out of favor with men like Travis, Ross, and Macdonald leading the way.

Calling it a miniature hurdle track as the author does is reflective of this evolving change in thinking.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 03:59:08 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2015, 04:05:22 PM »
I think time and progress were making Macdonald ' s 1894 version of Chicago a Victorian relic by 1909.  Certainly it doesn't reflect Macdonald ' s architectural philosophy by that juncture and didn't the club and CBM have Raynor essentially redesign it significantly into almost a brand new course by 1923?

Macdonald himself wrote that the 3 best US courses were generally acknowledged to be Myopia, Garden City, and Chicago in 1904.  I think by 1909 the whole school of steeplechase architecture was falling out of favor with men like Travis, Ross, and Macdonald leading the way.

Calling it a miniature hurdle track as the author does is reflective of this evolving change in thinking.

I was reading the review of Montclair, a course with as many "miniature hurdles" as CGC, and I'm wondering why Rogers didn't have a similar reaction. At one time he was the tournament chairman of the NJSGA, so maybe he was a homer.  ;D       
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 04:15:52 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2015, 04:11:01 PM »
Hi Joe,

GREAT FIND!!!


Glad this article was of use for you Brad.  I must admit that I know very little about Tedesco.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2015, 04:13:00 PM »
I'd add Emmet to the list of those moving architecture forward by 1909.  Check out some of the bunkering schemes at Salisbury in contrast to Chicago for instance.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2015, 04:21:49 PM »
1909

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2015, 04:24:35 PM »
Jim,

Good one...possibly!   ;D

Although perhaps he was giving them creativity and style points for using high grass instead of sand as their chief cross bunker hazard.  ;)

The drawing of Montclair looks fairly ghastly.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2015, 04:56:02 PM »
Rogers on Bretton Woods
http://tinyurl.com/q4mx56v
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2015, 05:45:48 PM »
Jim,

Good one...possibly!   ;D

Although perhaps he was giving them creativity and style points for using high grass instead of sand as their chief cross bunker hazard.  ;)

The drawing of Montclair looks fairly ghastly.

I'd say that's a cop-out (pun intended) on your part Mike. There are 6 holes with one cross bunker and 3 holes with two.

Guy's either an inconsistent reviewer or a homer.  ;) 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2015, 05:54:19 PM »
Jim,

Good one...possibly!   ;D

Although perhaps he was giving them creativity and style points for using high grass instead of sand as their chief cross bunker hazard.  ;)

The drawing of Montclair looks fairly ghastly.

I'd say that's a cop-out (pun intended) on your part Mike. There are 6 holes with one cross bunker and 3 holes with two.

Guy's either an inconsistent reviewer or a homer.  ;) 

Mmmmm, you said Homer.

Mmmmm, Duff beer.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2015, 06:02:27 PM »
Jim,

Another vote here for Homer.  ;D
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2015, 07:54:38 PM »
Jim,

Another vote here for Homer.  ;D

At least -  I'm consistent.  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 1909 course reviews in The Christian Science Monitor
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2015, 07:58:22 PM »
Jim,

;D
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/