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JNC Lyon

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Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« on: May 05, 2015, 10:30:55 PM »
What are your favorite "Good Bad Courses"?

A "Good Bad Course" is a course that:

  • you like even though you know it doesn't sniff a 4 on the Doak scale.
  • has at least half a dozen good golf holes but has a few stinkers as well.
  • could be much improved with better bunkering/aesthetics/ownership/conditioning.
  • can be described as a "guilty pleasure." Some might think of it as the Legally Blonde of golf courses.
  • you won't necessarily tell your non-GCA friends you're playing this weekend.

A couple that spring to mind:
Lekarica
Misty Creek
Terry Hills
Wild Wood (formerly Thunder Bay), or any other Pete Craig design
Sandpiper
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Greg Gilson

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2015, 11:04:17 PM »
Tobacco Road...

Royal Cinque Ports...

New South Wales...

National (Old)
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Scott Warren

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2015, 11:28:01 PM »
John asks:

Quote from: JNC Lyon on May 05, 2015, 10:30:55 PM
What are your favorite "Good Bad Courses"?

A "Good Bad Course" is a course that:

  • you like even though you know it doesn't sniff a 4 on the Doak scale.
  • has at least half a dozen good golf holes but has a few stinkers as well.
  • could be much improved with better bunkering/aesthetics/ownership/conditioning.
  • can be described as a "guilty pleasure." Some might think of it as the Legally Blonde of golf courses.
  • you won't necessarily tell your non-GCA friends you're playing this weekend.

Greg suggests:

Quote from: Greg Gilson on May 05, 2015, 11:04:17 PM
Royal Cinque Ports...

Do you care to explain the nomination?!
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mike_beene

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2015, 11:50:35 PM »
Spanish Bay and Mt Mitchell. Two relaxing fun beautiful places that are what they are.
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2015, 12:28:33 AM »
Quote from: mike_beene on May 05, 2015, 11:50:35 PM
Spanish Bay and Mt Mitchell. Two relaxing fun beautiful places that are what they are.

Interesting picks. Mt Mitchell is fun and beautiful but not great architecture.  Same can be said of Spanish Bay.
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Greg Gilson

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2015, 12:44:33 AM »
RCP? (and the other 3?)

I chose to focus on a couple of the criteria: A "Good Bad Course" is a course that:

•has at least half a dozen good golf holes but has a few stinkers as well.
•can be described as a "guilty pleasure." Some might think of it as the Legally Blonde of golf courses.
•you won't necessarily tell your non-GCA friends you're playing this weekend

That's sort of how I see those 4 courses. I REAAAAAAALLLLY love all 4 of them but they each have a few holes that "jar" or are somewhat below the extreme quality of the rest. Furthermore, most of my friends (especially the non GCA types) tend to roll their eyes twitch their lips as if they don't quite get the high excitement.
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Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2015, 09:30:24 AM »
As it was mentioned on another thread, I'm nominating Torrey Pines South. I honestly liked that course, especially holes 2,3,4, 11,12, 14, 17 and 18.

Now I didn't pay the primo green fee, I got lucky and just showed up and got out as a single for $75. Maybe if I paid $250 I'd expect more. And if you take away the views it obviously doesn't stand on its own merit.

I'll throw in another vote for Spanish Bay
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Jim Sherma

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2015, 09:39:27 AM »
I'm thinking that I would put Crail Balcomie and Dooks on this list. Neither is a great course in and of itself, but there are few places that I would rather be walking around with my clubs. Clearly the locations have a lot to do with it. Surround them with caravan parks and industrial buildings and neither would be of much interest.

More locally I would include Locust Valley GC in Center Valley, PA. It's certainly not a bad course but is an aging William and David Gordon course that has been public for quite a while and needs serious tree removal and some turf investment although it really isn't that bad based on the last few times I've played it. It always had a bunch of good shots on it and asks you to move the ball around through some tight awkwardly distanced doglegs. For a few years after it first went public it was a really great place to play before the disinvestment started to show.  

For a truly bad course that is fun I like Tumblebrook in Coopersburg, PA. It's a nine hole course that evidently is a mail-in Donald Ross routing. Some fun shots and I always got a kick running around here. Definitely not a good course but I willingly make time for it occasionally.
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B.Ross

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2015, 11:48:25 AM »
are you referencing sandpiper in santa barbara, ca? b/c if so, im perplexed as to how it makes the list ive only played it once, but i can only think of 1 real clunker of a hole (18 par 3 over water). then taking into account all the ocean holes and ocean views, its a pretty awesome place.
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Phil McDade

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2015, 12:55:50 PM »
The guilty pleasures thread from a few years ago:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47339.0.html
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jeffwarne

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2015, 12:59:18 PM »
surely I'm not the only one confused by the responses to this thread
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Thomas Dai

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2015, 01:09:55 PM »
The venerable herein Painswick could well come under the banner of 'Good Bad Course' - terrain, blindness, width, safety, other users, conditioning, etc, etc. To some simply just bad. Certainly a golf experience you're unlikely to forget in a hurry.
Atb
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JNC Lyon

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2015, 02:20:30 PM »
Here is another criterion to clarify the purpose of my first post:

Has no shot at being ranked one of the best courses in its country or state.

Greg Gilson:

None of the courses you mention qualify as "Good Bad" courses. The only one I have played of the four is Royal Cinque Ports, which has several great holes, several good holes, and zero "bad" holes. It hosted a British Amateur in 2013, is perennially ranked as one of the best courses in England, and in my view qualifies as a merely "great" course. I haven't played the other three, but from what I understand they would all be classified as somewhere between "good" and "great." They have all been featured in one or more books on Golf Architecture, and three of the four would probably find their way onto a well-traveled golfer's top 25.

The "Good Bad" course I'm thinking of isn't on anybody's list. It's not a course that most people have heard of or hold in high regard. It's not a course that is an under-appreciated classic. It's probably not even a course you love wholeheartedly. It's that guilty pleasure, that Varsity Blues or Tokyo Drift of golf courses that you know is "bad" by most objective measures but still has parts that appeal to you.

I think Jim Sherma's list gets at what I'm looking for here. I have played Tumblebrook, and it definitely fits the bill. It's nearly a cow pasture, but the greens at 4 and 5 are worth the stop and the $10 greens fee.
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Kyle Harris

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2015, 02:25:41 PM »
The Sandpiper to which JNC is referring is in Lakeland, FL and I believe it is Steve Smyers's first solo design.

The place is filled with Golfing craic as our Irish friends would say, however, budget and a general malaise amongst the regulars leaves the place in spotty condition at best.

The bones are there.

The question I have for JNC is whether he actually meant to ask about "Bad Good Courses?"

For me, the textbook "Good Bad Course" is Scotland Yard in Dade City, FL.
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Carl Rogers

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2015, 02:34:25 PM »
Quote from: Greg Gilson on May 05, 2015, 11:04:17 PM
Tobacco Road...
I must take respectful and sincere but never the less severe exception.  Played TR last week for the 4th time and it is a terrific hoot (except for the 20+ handicapper), particularly with the new bermuda greens.

good for whom or bad for whom???
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Will Lozier

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2015, 02:57:48 PM »
Quote from: Greg Gilson on May 05, 2015, 11:04:17 PM
Royal Cinque Ports...

Do you care to explain the nomination?!

Ditto ??? ::)

What holes are stinkers? And you wouldn't tell your friends you were playing Deal?! Wow.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 03:00:06 PM by Will Lozier »
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David Stamm

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2015, 03:12:03 PM »
Vistoso
Desert Dunes
Arizona National
Spyglass Hill
Sherwood CC
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Dave McCollum

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2015, 03:17:29 PM »
When I saw this tread, I thought a lot of us would say our home course/club. 
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2015, 03:19:40 PM »
Quote from: Jim Sherma on May 06, 2015, 09:39:27 AM

For a truly bad course that is fun I like Tumblebrook in Coopersburg, PA. It's a nine hole course that evidently is a mail-in Donald Ross routing. Some fun shots and I always got a kick running around here. Definitely not a good course but I willingly make time for it occasionally.


I'll second the nomination of Tumblebrook.  Here is how my eyes and camera saw the course last summer:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Tumblebrook/
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2015, 03:26:11 PM »
And Clayton Park could be considered a "good bad course" b/c it is dirt cheap (Mayday Malone was charged a whoppin' 6 bucks to play it this week with me; me not being a senior meant $11) AND it is walking only.

You really may want to check this place out:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/ClaytonPark/
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Greg Gilson

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2015, 04:23:35 PM »
Hi guys....whoa. I clearly interpreted the topic, question & criteria differently. My bad form & I apologize! Clearly I was on a different tangent. Just to clarify (and apologize for wasting space!):

I chose to focus on a couple of the criteria: A "Good Bad Course" is a course that:

•has at least half a dozen good golf holes but has a few stinkers as well.
•can be described as a "guilty pleasure." Some might think of it as the Legally Blonde of golf courses.
•you won't necessarily tell your non-GCA friends you're playing this weekend

That's sort of how I see those 4 courses. I REAAAAAAALLLLY love all 4 of them but they each have a few holes that "jar" or are somewhat below the extreme quality of the rest. Furthermore, most of my friends (especially the non GCA types) tend to roll their eyes twitch their lips as if they don't quite get the high excitement.
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Mac Plumart

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2015, 05:23:37 PM »
St. Marlo outside of Atlanta.

It is such a poorly designed course it is almost laughable.  But I like it!

 :'(
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Michael Felton

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2015, 05:42:24 PM »
I quite like La Tourette on Staten Island. It's not likely to win any awards, but I enjoy it and it has some pretty good holes on it.
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Tim Leahy

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Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2015, 06:40:49 PM »
Lake Chabot in Oakland for the elevation changes and par 6 18th.
DeBell in Burbank also for the elevation changes and severe doglegs.
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Gib_Papazian

Re: Your Favorite "Good Bad Courses"
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2015, 10:07:34 PM »
Fall River GC, Fall River, CA (old Clark Glasson design)

Crystal Springs, Burlingame, CA

Skywest GC, Hayward, CA

Del Rio CC, Brawley, CA (Home of the Elmer Sears Lettuce Tournament)

Boulder City GC, Boulder City, NV

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