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Ronald Montesano

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Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« on: March 31, 2015, 10:41:57 AM »
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jeffwarne

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2015, 11:22:55 AM »
Yep see other thread
Your pic shows the God awful background that really caught my eye the way it "frames" ;D Crenshaw and Coore)
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Howard Riefs

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2015, 11:37:38 AM »
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Josh Tarble

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 11:53:02 AM »
Knowing the terrain and soil profile of the Ozarks, it will be very very interesting to see what they come up with.
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Jim Nugent

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 12:25:05 PM »
Quote from: Josh Tarble on March 31, 2015, 11:53:02 AM
Knowing the terrain and soil profile of the Ozarks, it will be very very interesting to see what they come up with.

Here is Coore's (semi-) PR quote that touches on this:

“When we visited the site on Buffalo Ridge, we were immediately reminded of some of the terrain we have successfully worked in locations such as Clear Creek at Lake Tahoe and Old Sandwich Club in Massachusetts."

Would C&C design on a site that is not well suited for golf? 
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PCCraig

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 12:32:57 PM »
Quote from: Jim Nugent on March 31, 2015, 12:25:05 PM
Quote from: Josh Tarble on March 31, 2015, 11:53:02 AM
Knowing the terrain and soil profile of the Ozarks, it will be very very interesting to see what they come up with.

Here is Coore's (semi-) PR quote that touches on this:

“When we visited the site on Buffalo Ridge, we were immediately reminded of some of the terrain we have successfully worked in locations such as Clear Creek at Lake Tahoe and Old Sandwich Club in Massachusetts."

Would C&C design on a site that is not well suited for golf? 

Of course.
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Howard Riefs

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 01:27:31 PM »
Quote from: PCraig on March 31, 2015, 12:32:57 PM
Quote from: Jim Nugent on March 31, 2015, 12:25:05 PM
Quote from: Josh Tarble on March 31, 2015, 11:53:02 AM
Knowing the terrain and soil profile of the Ozarks, it will be very very interesting to see what they come up with.

Here is Coore's (semi-) PR quote that touches on this:

“When we visited the site on Buffalo Ridge, we were immediately reminded of some of the terrain we have successfully worked in locations such as Clear Creek at Lake Tahoe and Old Sandwich Club in Massachusetts."

Would C&C design on a site that is not well suited for golf? 

Of course.


Trinity Forest comes to mind.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/golf/headlines/20130130-nichols-trinity-forest-golf-course-designers-embrace-challenge-of-landfill-site.ece

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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Josh Tarble

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 01:46:43 PM »
To clarify my statement, I'm sure the terrain is fine.  The Ozarks are filled with rolling hills that can be quite dramatic.  It may be a little difficult to find a tight, walkable routing.

The soil is would be my main issue.  In the Ozarks, the soil may be the absolute worst type in terms of agronomy and course construction.  It's a dense, red clay and filled with rocks - from pebbles to boulders.  I would think finish work and shaping would be a nightmare and growing grass in it is extremely difficult.  I would assume the sand capping will be pretty significant.

I am sure C&C will build a great course. Not saying it can't be done and not knowing any details of the site, I just think it will be incredibly difficult to build a course using their traditional principles.
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Jim Nugent

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2015, 02:55:19 PM »
Howard, here, from the article you linked, is what Coore says about the Trinity site:

"I was surprised, quite frankly, at the natural rolling terrain. We believe the site could have an extremely good golf course, one that looks very interesting and one that we felt very excited about.”
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Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2015, 03:20:53 PM »
Quote from: Josh Tarble on March 31, 2015, 01:46:43 PM
To clarify my statement, I'm sure the terrain is fine.  The Ozarks are filled with rolling hills that can be quite dramatic.  It may be a little difficult to find a tight, walkable routing.

The soil is would be my main issue.  In the Ozarks, the soil may be the absolute worst type in terms of agronomy and course construction.  It's a dense, red clay and filled with rocks - from pebbles to boulders.  I would think finish work and shaping would be a nightmare and growing grass in it is extremely difficult.  I would assume the sand capping will be pretty significant.

I am sure C&C will build a great course. Not saying it can't be done and not knowing any details of the site, I just think it will be incredibly difficult to build a course using their traditional principles.
The better courses in the Ozarks are capped with top soil I believe, or else you do have spotty rocky turf. Branson Creek/Buffalo Ridge has very good conditioning and surprisingly very gradual elevation changes. Possibly even walkable.
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Josh Tarble

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course New
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2015, 03:22:22 PM »
Ryan,
That's what I'd assume they would do as well. I don't know if you can accomplish better than "decent" conditioning in that soil without it.  

EDIT:  The other thing, without capping the site, there is no way the course would ever play anything remotely close to fast or firm in the prime season.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 03:31:30 PM by Josh Tarble »
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Ryan Hillenbrand

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Re: Big Cedar Lodge in Missouri Adding C&C (or B&B) Course
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2015, 03:28:49 PM »
Quote from: Josh Tarble on March 31, 2015, 03:22:22 PM
Ryan,
That's what I'd assume they would do as well. I don't know if you can accomplish better than "decent" conditioning in that soil without it. 



Agreed. There is marked difference in that area between courses with top soil underneath and those grassed right on top of the native soil.
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