Cavalier G&YC, by Charles Banks

« **on:** September 04, 2003, 10:26:56 AM »

Here are some pics of the newly restored Cavalier Golf &
Yacht Club, in Virginia Beach, designed by Charles Banks and
recently restored by Lester George, who is also in the process
of restoring the original Raynor-designed Old White course at
The Greenbrier resort.

Lester has asked me to gauge interest in an outing sometime
this fall at Cavalier.

#2 - Alps:

#4 - Long:

#5 - Biarritz:

#6 - Punchbowl:

#7 - Maiden:

#8 - Short:

#11 - Eden:

#13 - Narrows:

#14 - Road:

#16 - Plateau:

#17 - Cape:

#18 - Redan:

« **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2003, 10:28:30 AM »

Scott:

If you plan it, they will come.

Given the NM gig is Sep. 19-21 though, for those of us with life realities, well.... it may be difficult to pull off both. But heck, I for one would give the old college try... that place looks fantastic.

TH

« **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2003, 10:37:30 AM »

Scott

Is there an old aerial of the course you can post?

« **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2003, 10:47:00 AM »

Scott,

I talked to Lester about this course a couple of months ago and he sent me some excellent photos. It looks great. Lester seems to be one of those guys that understands the history of many of the places he does restorations before he undertakes the project. Starmount would be another good example of this.

« **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2003, 10:53:06 AM »

Did Banks really flash that much sand, or shape his bunkers in that manner?

I know next to nothing about Cavalier, but I'm pretty sure I would not have guessed those features came from the Raynor/Banks school without knowing.

« **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2003, 11:00:55 AM »

i would defintily be interested in attending an outing here or playing there at some point. i think there are enough east coast guys that could swing this type of weekend as well.

i played the old white course at greenbrier about 5 years ago and didn't realize it was an original raynor, as i wasn't into architecture that much. i did realize that i liked the course and design better than the Original Greenbrier Course.

jason

« **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2003, 11:02:51 AM »

Geoffrey,

All I have is the one I used for AOTD #359 here, taken
before the restoration (and obviously with dormant grass).
Can see the shadowing of the elevated Short green in lower right:

from the thread: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=26

« **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2003, 11:18:23 AM »

If the date works this fall - I'd be intersted in an outing.

Lester is also involved with the restoration/ renovation of the CC of Virginia's James River Course (a Flynn) in Richmond.

« **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2003, 11:21:45 AM »

Scott, I'd definitely be interested. Kinloch made me a believer!

« **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2003, 11:44:02 AM »

I am interested pending date and detail information.

« **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2003, 12:19:07 PM »

Thanks Scott

I was hoping to see an old aerial that showed the original shapes of the bunkering. Like Mike, I would have never suspected this was a Banks course. Capes and bays, flashed sand and shallow angles down into the sand isn't what I have seen at Forsgate, The Knoll, Whippoorwill or either Essex private or public.

« **Reply #11 on:** September 04, 2003, 03:47:55 PM »

I'll throw out October 4th as a proposed date, as that was
the most popular date for the seemingly forgotten "East
Coast King's Putter/Ran's Old Bag" gathering at Cuscowilla
talked about in April. Most popular as it had the least
conflict with big Southeast college football games, although
many in the northeast (D.C./Balt/Philly/NYC/NJ) regions are
closer to Cavalier anyways.

Also is the only weekend I could possibly/realistically make
it, without going into early-mid November.

Average temperature on Oct 4: 75 degrees

Bermuda grass: still active (not dormant for another
month/month and a 1/2)

Far enough from summer vacations AND Thanksgiving trips.

Those who make a whole weekend out of it can check out
Doak's Riverfront nearby, and other things could possibly be arranged.

Does this date work for people? Lester?

« **Reply #12 on:** September 04, 2003, 03:56:35 PM »

Scott:

October 4 might work for me.

What's the max distance on the layout -- slope and cr is also appreciated if you have it.

Thanks ...

« **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2003, 04:09:44 PM »

Matt,

I should have known! (Insert roll of the eyes here....

)

It is a short course, but not as short as would initially seem.
I think Lester told me the restored yardage is around 6100-
6200 yards, but it is a par 69 (2 par 5's, 5 par 3's), so it
plays much longer than the yardage. It probably plays in the
6600-yard range as a par 72 (add ~100 yards each for the 2
extra par 5's converted from par 4's and add ~200 yards for
the extra par 3 converted to a par 4). I think the course is
on a very small piece of property.

CR=70.1 (keep in mind par 69) and slope=126.

On golfcourse.com, the Biarritz is listed at 214 yards and the
Redan at 205. Short is 147 and Eden is 178.

« **Reply #14 on:** September 04, 2003, 04:12:59 PM »

Scott,

I am in Florida from October 3 thru 16. I could possibly do it on October 21st. Let me know. I'll set it up with the MGR if I can't be there.

Lester

« **Reply #15 on:** September 04, 2003, 04:29:03 PM »

I suggested Oct 4 partly for strategic reasons and partly for
selfish reasons. My attendance certainly is not a deal-
breaker (I can't make the 21st as I'll be at another
conference), but Lester's attendance should be, for a
maximum learning experience.

I'm not sure how popular a weekday will be, but I'll throw
out Oct 21 and Saturday, November 8 as more possibilities.

(Avg high on Nov 8: 65).

« **Reply #16 on:** September 04, 2003, 04:37:46 PM »

October 21st and November 8th both work for me. October 4th doesn't work, despite all the platitudes on the perfect golfwife, that is my anniversary weekend and there will be no golf for me.

« **Reply #17 on:** September 04, 2003, 04:44:34 PM »

I like November 8

« **Reply #18 on:** September 04, 2003, 04:57:25 PM »

I'd need a weekend (started new job, no vacation till Jan 1). Either October 4 or November 8 would be OK.

« **Reply #19 on:** September 04, 2003, 05:00:36 PM »

I think the 8th works for me

« **Reply #20 on:** September 04, 2003, 07:01:02 PM »

I would love to get to one of these outings soon, and make acquaintances with everyone. Unfortunately this another on the "pass" list because of work conflicts.

« **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2003, 12:52:06 PM »

Just bringing this back to the top with the proposed dates (Oct 21 and Nov 8 )

« **Reply #22 on:** September 05, 2003, 12:58:17 PM »

The first weekend in October works for me -- otherwise I unfortunately have to say -- adios!

No matter -- enjoy the get together -- the layout looks most appealing.

For those who are true Banks fans -- you need to venture a bit north and play Forsgate CC in Jamesburg, NJ (exit 8A off the NJ Tpke). You'll see all the splendor -- and much more -- there!

« **Reply #23 on:** September 05, 2003, 01:02:52 PM »

Does that mean October 4 is completely out the window?

« **Reply #24 on:** September 17, 2003, 10:38:03 AM »

Scott,

I talked to John Milleson this morning and he has agreed to have the outing. The date needs to be set soon. I mentioned October 18th or beyond and asked for a Saturday or Sunday. He needs us to confirm how many before we firm a weekend day. It we have a dozen or less it seems he can work it out. If more, we may have to play on a weekday. I will make every effort to be there on the 18th or 25th if I can. Someone mentioned November 8th, which also sounds good, but the Bermuda Grass may be dormant by then. Let me know in the next couple of days what you wat to do.

Lester

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