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Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2015, 04:38:41 PM »
Why would Jordan not buy one of the many golf courses that are for sale?


Because he might be able to build a much better one.  Especially if Doak designs the course. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2015, 07:33:58 PM »

There is nothing for sale here. We do not suffer from the golf malaise going on thru out the country.We have a slew of excellent courses both private and gated communities. Without identifying each club, memberships cost as follows:
$300,000
175,000
175,000
150,000
130,000
115,000
100,000
100,000
100,000
80,000
65,000
60,000

Wow.  Why aren't there any headline articles about that?  [Well, I guess there are, but they don't mention the golf.]

Philip Hensley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2015, 08:23:27 PM »
Are there any other courses that a person has built almost exclusively for their own use? I think it would be great to see what a client-Archie team could come up with when they literally have no one to answer to but themselves.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2015, 08:26:24 PM »
Philip,

I'm sure there are many, But Wolf Point in Port Lavaca, Texas is the modern day poster child of this genre.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Peter Pallotta

Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2015, 08:53:31 PM »
From the looks and sounds of it, Wolf Point turned out magnificently.

But every time someone asks the question that Philip just did, I find myself thinking 'the devil is in the details'.

In the creative profession of which I was once a part, for every producer who I wished could answer only to himself there were 10 who I sincerely hoped never got the chance.

Not only were their tastes, for me, banal and puerile and even offensive; but they'd been in the racket so long that I wondered if they still knew what 'answering to no one' even meant, or could mean.

I still believe that there are no excuses for mediocre work; but I guess I have to conclude that there are plenty of explanations, including lack of talent, taste, and technical know-how.  Most importantly, what the initial 'intention' is proves invariably to have a dramatic impact on the finished product.

To paraphrase CS Lewis: What a man hears and sees has a lot to do with where he is standing, but it has even more to do with the kind of man he is.

Back to the topic -- if this goes, I have a feeling that Tom D will surprise us, and that Michael J will surprise us even more.

  
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 08:56:23 PM by PPallotta »

Philip Hensley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2015, 09:09:04 PM »
I agree and my comment was based on your insightful comment from the free reign thread. If the course is truly going to be as presented in the article, as essentially Jordan's private course (plus a few "members" picked at his discretion), the only limitations would be self-imposed.

Adam Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2015, 04:20:43 PM »
To provide a few answers to a question someone asked about people that built golf courses for personal use, there are a number of answers. 

Locally, "Papa" John Schnatter has a golf course on his property in the Louisville area.  It doesn't have 18 holes, but I believe 18 or more combinations of holes combining fairways, greens, and tees.

I have heard Rick Dees also has a nice golf course on his property in Mercer County, Ky.

Someone posted a while back the Simon home with an attached golf course for sale in Indiana.

Of course Wolf Point has been talked about quite often on GCA.

I am sure there are many others that various multi millionaires and celebrities have built on property they own.  Nuzzo is the only architect I know of from the courses I mentioned.  I know Doak's name has been mentioned as connected to Jordan, but someone should certainly bring Nuzzo's work to his attention.

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2015, 05:18:43 PM »
In the Midwest, wasn't  Canyatta originally a personal golf course that kept growing?

Along those lines wouldn't Jordan's course be like New Buffalo's Dunes Club?
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2015, 05:59:04 PM »
Hominy Hill, near Colts Neck, NJ, was designed by Robert Trent Jones in the 1960's and built for a Mr. Mercer for the sole use of entertaining his clients in the shipping business. Days or weeks would go by with no one playing the course.

Some time after Mr. Mercer's passing this family gifted the course to Monmouth County and it has been a muni ever since. It has hosted the USGA Publinx. I think it is one of the few courses that has hosted it for both the Men & Women. 

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2015, 07:08:36 PM »
Why would Jordan not buy one of the many golf courses that are for sale?

He could remodel it and probably save $20 million.

There is nothing for sale here. We do not suffer from the golf malaise going on thru out the country.We have a slew of excellent courses both private and gated communities. Without identifying each club, memberships cost as follows:
$300,000
175,000
175,000
150,000
130,000
115,000
100,000
100,000
100,000
80,000
65,000
60,000

Cary,

   Most of the above initiations are older, "stale" prices that are often quoted as asked, but rarely received. We both know many of those courses either regularly discount their initiation fees or have made mass waivers of those fees in order to compete for new members. In fact, that's exactly what happened at The Bears Club a few years ago, flooding the club with new, active members, much to MJ's consternation.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Adam Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2015, 10:27:57 PM »
Would it not be cheaper for MJ to "buy" multiple memberships at one club in an effort to keep numbers down?  I am sure it would depend on the club and some may not even be interested in that, but who doesnt want to be able to say "Michael Jordan is a member here."

Will MacEwen

Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2015, 12:24:19 AM »
Craig McCaw owns James Island outside of Victoria BC which has an 18 hole Jack Nicklaus design course.

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2015, 09:27:49 AM »
Philip,

Wayne Huizenga built the Floridian. Used Gary Player as architect because he lived near by...altered By Tom Fazio after Jim Crane bought it for 26 million...RHE

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2015, 10:35:20 AM »
MJ probably isn't making a lot of fans amongst Bear's Club members(and Nicklaus) airing their supposed slow play "dirty laundry"

If the result is an additional Doak course in Florida, I guess that's a trade we'll all take ;D
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2015, 10:41:42 AM »
Unless all the old money white guys moved Jordan ain't just writing a check and getting in half of Cary's clubs. The golf world is full of great courses built because of discrimination.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2015, 11:10:02 AM »
Unless all the old money white guys moved Jordan ain't just writing a check and getting in half of Cary's clubs. The golf world is full of great courses built because of discrimination.

He is doing it to discriminate not because of discrimination.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Patrick Hodgdon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2015, 11:26:55 AM »
I wonder what Doak courses MJ has seen first hand, considering most would seem to me to be setup the opposite for what has been described here as his preferred way to play.
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2015, 11:48:22 AM »
Almost half of Brazilīs golf courses are built this way, for one individual! I built one but he got bored quick and turned it into a housing development with golf course. We have one in Chile and itīs not bad and the guy did it himself. Has more machinery and then any other club in Chile. Wille Nelson use to have one in Texas but I think he ran into some tax problems.

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2015, 12:17:51 PM »
The Jim Engh-designed Sanctuary in Colorado was built essentially that way, though the owner (founder of Remax Dave Liniger) was the only member when built, the course hosts numerous charity events and, when new, was supposedly going to be a way for Remax agents to network with high-end clients. Not sure how much that model may have changed, since I haven't lived in the area for some time.

John Connolly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2015, 12:22:20 PM »
Would it not be cheaper for MJ to "buy" multiple memberships at one club in an effort to keep numbers down?  I am sure it would depend on the club and some may not even be interested in that, but who doesnt want to be able to say "Michael Jordan is a member here."

I would guess there are plenty.
"And yet - and yet, this New Road will some day be the Old Road, too."

                                                      Neil Munroe (1863-1930)

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2015, 12:45:52 PM »
MJ probably isn't making a lot of fans amongst Bear's Club members(and Nicklaus) airing their supposed slow play "dirty laundry"

If the result is an additional Doak course in Florida, I guess that's a trade we'll all take ;D

After the last member-guest tourney round took over 5.15hrs, I really don't think he's alone.

Exactly!!
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Sam Krume

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2015, 01:02:40 PM »
Are there any other courses that a person has built almost exclusively for their own use? I think it would be great to see what a client-Archie team could come up with when they literally have no one to answer to but themselves.

If you venture over to Oz, Kerry Packer commissioned Greg Norman to design him a course. He gave him pick of any land on his 70,000 acre estate....and Ellerston was born.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2015, 01:21:20 PM »
Would it not be cheaper for MJ to "buy" multiple memberships at one club in an effort to keep numbers down?  I am sure it would depend on the club and some may not even be interested in that, but who doesnt want to be able to say "Michael Jordan is a member here."

I would guess there are plenty.

"Plenty" may be an understatement.
There are many clubs in MJ's former hometown that have strict (unwritten) "No MJ" policies. His clown-car style of play can get over at Shadow Creek, Bear's Club and some other places. But, many clubs do not need/want/tolerate the intrusion.

I would also guess that the next board meeting at the Bear's Club will have a section dedicated to their "MJ issue" and that some board members would propose inviting him to resign. Could even have another faction that will insist on it.

The good of the many....

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2015, 01:49:41 PM »
I don't happen to have MJ money but if I did I may well consider building or buying my own club. The pace of play at so many clubs is an issue and is one of the main reasons I would consider not playing this great game.
I play regularly where we end up skipping  around the course if we are held up - not because we are honorary or special but because slow play is painful and in this day and age we (youngish guys) don't have time for 4 hr 30 rounds.
If as some suggest here, his style of play is not enjoyed at "high end" clubs then maybe he is better off making his own rules at his own course with his own set of friends. Seems like a perfect scenario for MJ and creates another job for an architect and course builders. Win win!
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air Jordan considering a new golf club in Hobe Sound?
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2015, 02:18:50 PM »
Craig McCaw owns James Island outside of Victoria BC which has an 18 hole Jack Nicklaus design course.

It's yours for only $75 million.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/02/james-island-for-sale-craig-mccaw_n_5754368.html
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

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