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David_Tepper

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2015, 02:55:34 PM »
"Presidio Golf Club was overhauled and opened to the public in 1995, I believe"

Jason W. -

Sorry, but you are mistaken about the Presidio being "overhauled" in 1999. That did not happen. I was a member there until the end of 1999. The course did have some minor changes to the some of the greens and a few bunkers around 2000 (and is currently in the process of having its bunkers re-done), but it hardly could be considered an "overhaul."

On the other hand, the Galbraith golf course (next to the Oakland Airport) was essentially blown up and re-built (designed by Johnny Miller Assoc.) as the Metropolitan Golf Links 12-15 years ago.

DT   
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John Nixon

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2015, 04:09:14 PM »
Brickyard Crossing, Indianapolis? I'm not sure it's less than 25 years old. And maybe being built on top of an earlier course disqualifies it?
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Josh Tarble

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2015, 04:57:17 PM »
John,

Brickyard opened in 94 so well inside the 25 year mark...however the original course was around since the 30s. 

Also in Indy, Wolf Run is right on the edge of both the distance and age.   There have been several good course built on the outskirts of Indianapolis in the last 25 years.

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Mike_DeVries

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2015, 09:28:36 PM »
Grand Rapids, MI metro is 1M.  Mines Golf Course is 5 minutes from the heart of downtown, with traffic.  Truly an urban course but with a country / northern woods feel.
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Richard Choi

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2015, 09:41:24 PM »
This is a pretty tough criteria as in USA, there are only nine cities that have over a million people (based on 2012 census). The cities are; New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, and Dallas.

My guess is only NY, Chicago, and Phoenix have courses built within 20 miles of the city center over last 25 years (other cities have too much sprawl to have something built that close). At most, we are talking about 10 to 20 courses that would qualify the first criteria (even before considering "greatness").
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 09:43:03 PM by Richard Choi »
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Mike_Trenham

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2015, 09:49:34 PM »
Glenn Mills is within 20 miles of Philadelphia City Halll.
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Proud member of a Doak 3.

Joe McCormac

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2015, 10:15:52 PM »
If we use MSA for the 1MM measure, St. Louis has Forest Park.  Hale Irwin's firm redesigned it in 2003-2004

From the Forest Park website ...

"Their principal architect, Stan Gentry, took the task of re-working Robert Foulis' work with a keen eye on incorporating the look and feel of the original course."

The course is no more than 5 miles from downtown.
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JC Jones

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2015, 10:41:43 PM »
Quote from: David Schmidt on February 09, 2015, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: Mike_DeVries on February 09, 2015, 09:28:36 PM
Grand Rapids, MI metro is 1M.  Mines Golf Course is 5 minutes from the heart of downtown, with traffic.  Truly an urban course but with a country / northern woods feel.

1mm what?  :)



1mm dutch people. 
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

mike_beene

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2015, 12:48:28 AM »
Dallas National is probably 5 miles to city center.
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Richard Choi

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2015, 10:23:21 AM »
If you use MSA, then the candidates for the #1 criteria goes up, but criteria #2 becomes meaningless as some MSA's are so big that many parts of the MSA's are more than 20 miles from the city center. And if you go by 20 miles + edge of MSA, then you have areas that are over a hundred miles wide, and I would not label them "urban" in any way.
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John Nixon

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2015, 11:22:55 AM »
Quote from: Josh Tarble on February 09, 2015, 04:57:17 PM
John,

Brickyard opened in 94 so well inside the 25 year mark...however the original course was around since the 30s. 

Also in Indy, Wolf Run is right on the edge of both the distance and age.   There have been several good course built on the outskirts of Indianapolis in the last 25 years.



Thanks for the info. And while Wolf Run is certainly a better course IMO than BC, I took the "urban area" part of the question to mean not surrounded by farmland and suburban residential development.  Speedway Indiana is, if anything, urban.
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Andy Shulman

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2015, 08:15:23 AM »
It's hardly urban, but Laurel Hill Golf Club - built on the site of the former DC prison - is a 19.9 mile drive from the Jefferson Memorial.  The course hosted the penultimate USGA Public Links Championship in 2013.
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JLahrman

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2015, 08:35:39 AM »
Quote from: JC Jones on February 09, 2015, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: David Schmidt on February 09, 2015, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: Mike_DeVries on February 09, 2015, 09:28:36 PM
Grand Rapids, MI metro is 1M.  Mines Golf Course is 5 minutes from the heart of downtown, with traffic.  Truly an urban course but with a country / northern woods feel.

1mm what?  :)



1mm dutch people. 


If you ain't Dutch you ain't much. Which means I ain't much, but my in-laws live in Grand Rapids. I haven't played any golf there though.

It's really a stretch to call it urban, but I suppose I could suggest Austin Golf Club. It's 30 miles outside of Austin, but by Texas standards that's fairly close in. Plus it has the additional critical quality of bearing the city's name.
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Dave Doxey

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2015, 09:07:10 AM »
Probably over a dozen in the Houston area.

Off the top of my head, just north of the city:  Carlton Woods, Woodlands Player & Palmer courses, Redstone, Glenloch, Blackhorse, Windrose,  Tour 18, Augusta Pines.

Houston locals can likely name several more.
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Sam Morrow

Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2015, 09:26:53 AM »
Dave,
Are you here in Houston?
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Josh Tarble

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2015, 09:52:11 AM »
Quote from: John Nixon on February 10, 2015, 11:22:55 AM
Quote from: Josh Tarble on February 09, 2015, 04:57:17 PM
John,

Brickyard opened in 94 so well inside the 25 year mark...however the original course was around since the 30s. 

Also in Indy, Wolf Run is right on the edge of both the distance and age.   There have been several good course built on the outskirts of Indianapolis in the last 25 years.



Thanks for the info. And while Wolf Run is certainly a better course IMO than BC, I took the "urban area" part of the question to mean not surrounded by farmland and suburban residential development.  Speedway Indiana is, if anything, urban.


Correct, it's probably the closest thing to a "downtown" course I've played as it's less than 2 miles from downtown Indy.  If you consider BC a new course you could also include the Fort as well.  The new course was rebuilt in '98.
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Phil Lipper

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2015, 10:03:11 AM »
I think its really tough to imagine a better club built in a true urban area in the 25 years than bayonne. Its unique, and its truly in a major urban area as opposed to being on the outskirts
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Brett Hochstein

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2015, 11:41:00 AM »
I just played Alister MacKenzie GC in Sacramento yesterday, in which it appears by the plans on the wall that the original course was completely blown up and rearranged 14 years ago to make way for 18 more holes.  It qualifies all the criteria except for best.  Some decent greens though.  Anyone know anything about the history of this place?

The most urban courses to me are the ones where skyscrapers command the offsite views.  The NYC ones, Simapo, and perhaps Yas Links most qualify for that.

Good call on the Mines though.  That's definitely city despite some really nice wooded land (and golf!).

Does the Cal Club remodel qualify?  I would say new land acquisition/development needs to be part of the criteria.
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"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Garland Bayley

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2015, 11:56:15 AM »
Quote from: Brett Hochstein on February 11, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
I just played Alister MacKenzie GC in Sacramento yesterday, in which it appears by the plans on the wall that the original course was completely blown up and rearranged 14 years ago to make way for 18 more holes.  It qualifies all the criteria except for best. ...

Sacramento has 1 million people? Who knew?
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Joe Hancock

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2015, 12:33:43 PM »
Quote from: JC Jones on February 09, 2015, 10:41:43 PM
Quote from: David Schmidt on February 09, 2015, 10:36:36 PM
Quote from: Mike_DeVries on February 09, 2015, 09:28:36 PM
Grand Rapids, MI metro is 1M.  Mines Golf Course is 5 minutes from the heart of downtown, with traffic.  Truly an urban course but with a country / northern woods feel.

1mm what?  :)



1mm dutch people. 


Mr. JC VanderJones,

Very witty retort.
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Brett Hochstein

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2015, 12:57:04 PM »
Quote from: GJ Bailey on February 11, 2015, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: Brett Hochstein on February 11, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
I just played Alister MacKenzie GC in Sacramento yesterday, in which it appears by the plans on the wall that the original course was completely blown up and rearranged 14 years ago to make way for 18 more holes.  It qualifies all the criteria except for best. ...

Sacramento has 1 million people? Who knew?


The metro is listed at 2.5M, but maybe it stretches out too far.  The point is that the course is completely urban, with freeways on both sides, freight rail and light rail on one side, and a car dealership practically in the parking lot.  It wouldn't fit the last criterion I suggested though because the land has been golf for 80 years.

The real question is does anyone know if anything special was once there, and if so, how long ago?  It certainly looked like MacKenzie had some cool drawings of greens there.  Maybe I should start a new thread...

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"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Garland Bayley

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2015, 01:16:07 PM »
Quote from: Brett Hochstein on February 11, 2015, 12:57:04 PM
Quote from: GJ Bailey on February 11, 2015, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: Brett Hochstein on February 11, 2015, 11:41:00 AM
I just played Alister MacKenzie GC in Sacramento yesterday, in which it appears by the plans on the wall that the original course was completely blown up and rearranged 14 years ago to make way for 18 more holes.  It qualifies all the criteria except for best. ...

Sacramento has 1 million people? Who knew?


The metro is listed at 2.5M, but maybe it stretches out too far. ...


Yes, I think including Reno, NV stretches it too far.
Even including Yuba City stretches it too far.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Richard Choi

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2015, 01:44:23 PM »
For me, the definition of an "urban" course is simple; it is any golf course that you can access using nothing but metro public transportation (bus, light rail, subway).
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Garland Bayley

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2015, 03:31:46 PM »
Quote from: Richard Choi on February 11, 2015, 01:44:23 PM
For me, the definition of an "urban" course is simple; it is any golf course that you can access using nothing but metro public transportation (bus, light rail, subway).

The Pierce County system will get you within a mile of Chambers Bay. Does that count? ;D
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Best club built in a urban area in the last 25 years?
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2015, 05:03:18 PM »
Riverwalk Golf Course was built in 2000 on the site of the old Stardust CC, in the heart of San Diego at Hotel Circle. It was a complete redesign to accommodate the trolley line accessing Qualcomm Stadium and San Diego State University. Ted Robinson at his 27 hole best!
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"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter
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