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Patrick_Mucci

Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« on: January 21, 2015, 10:30:58 PM »
Is it their newness and the need for water, or do the newer Bermuda's reduce distance once impacted by the ball ?
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Mike_Young

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2015, 10:34:35 PM »
Zoyzia can....
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Bill_McBride

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2015, 11:37:25 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on January 21, 2015, 10:34:35 PM
Zoyzia can....

I hate zoyzia.  It retains every cc of moisture.  419 (is that right?) is a great surface. 
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Josh Stevens

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2015, 12:16:05 AM »
Reduce distance compared to.....

What is the factor that determines this - what happens to the ball when it hits, and how far it rolls afterward.  How spongy is the surface on impact and then how smooth and so how it rolls (leaf size)

I don't know, I presume there is a lot to do with maintenance practices.  About every second November we lay waste to our course.  THE scalpers come in and it seems that every blade of grass is removed reducing the fairways to dirt.  Tonnes of organic material is carted off. It grows back quickly and I do notice that the fairways when cut properly do seem to have more run, but that may just be the warmer weather.

Im told however that the legend is rather slow over in melbourne
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Steve Okula

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 01:08:49 AM »
Two questions:

What are the new varieties of bermuda that are being used on fairways?

Is "the legend" in Melbourne the name of a golf course or a type of grass?
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the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2015, 05:10:09 AM »
Quote from: Steve Okula on January 22, 2015, 01:08:49 AM
Two questions:

What are the new varieties of bermuda that are being used on fairways?

Is "the legend" in Melbourne the name of a golf course or a type of grass?

Legend is a variety of couch (the Australian name for bermuda). See http://www.legendcouch.com.au
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2015, 06:44:39 AM »
If this is regarding Celebration, I can see where one might think that. Aggressive summer maintenance negates this. I played with several members here at PT on Tuesday and watched the ball run and run, 50-60yds on some tee shots.
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tommy Naccarato

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2015, 07:18:26 AM »
No!  The new and old Bermuda produces incredible playing surfaces. 
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2015, 07:45:25 AM »
The correct answer is, some do and some don't.

Legend bermudagrass was chosen for Royal Melbourne specifically because it doesn't give much roll after the ball lands, as opposed to the Santa Ana used on most of the other Sand Belt courses.  Royal Melbourne was afraid that, because it's hillier than the rest, Santa Ana would result in drives rushing down the hills on many holes [or rolling back at you on others].  On the Santa Ana, you almost always find a flat lie for your next shot because your drive keeps rolling until it gets to one.

When we tried to choose a fairway grass for Streamsong that would allow firm and fast playing conditions, we went to the old standby, 419.  It's been a great surface up there.  Seminole has the same.
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Joe Hancock

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2015, 09:11:35 AM »
Pat,

No. They are all still approximately 700 miles or more south of my home.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jeff Spittel

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2015, 09:41:08 AM »
I was going to say it's age, dramatically reduced flexibility and limited athleticism, but let's go with new strains of Bermuda in my case. 
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Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Do the new Bermuda fairway grasses reduce distance ?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2015, 10:31:02 AM »
Pat
As someone living in Bermuda grass heaven, I have not noticed much of a difference, the big difference coming from courses in the south that use Zoysia which certainly reduces distance off the tee when over watered which from my experience appears to be most of the time.

We have 419 at Texarkana CC which is as reliable as one gets in this neck of the woods, and as long as some of the newer courses restrain from excess wtaering I have not noticed much difference to my 240 straight down the middle tee shots :(

Green firmness and green speeds are a totally different story!!!!

We are about to redon our greens this summer, alowing the existing ones to die off or to be killed off and then spriggng...any supers on here who have done this please get in touch with me....thanks
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