[Mark Fedeli]

I'm fascinated by the idea of a hole that, even sans wind, should pretty much always be played along the ground. Where from tee to green the smart play is overwhelmingly ground-based and attempting an aerial attack is downright dumb.

Are there any that you think fit this description, and if not, how would you design one?

There are elements of the 6th at Mullion, seen in Ed Tilley's recent thread, that, if exaggerated, could be a candidate: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60349.0.html





The hole is steeply downhill, with OB long-right of the green. I haven't played it, but the OB looks to be much easier to find if you tried to bomb it all the way instead of just running it down.

If I were to design one that almost forces you to play it low, I would take elements of that hole to an extreme. For example:

a par 3 that's downhill enough, and long enough, to make judging the distance in the air and picking the right club difficult.
a narrow bunker right behind the green, but OB immediately behind that—so a shot that's 10 yards too long in the air is OB, but if it runs long on the ground, it merely rolls into the bunker.
mounding just short of the green that helps slow down any too-hot ground shots but gives an unwanted turbo boost to any aerial shots that catch its far side.
the smartest play is simply to punch your shot along the ground and watch it make its way down, Plinko-style.

[Ed Tilley]

Hi Mark,

I don't think the 6th at Mullion needs to be exaggerated anymore than it already is! You are right that this hole seriously favours the low shot - even when the prevailing wind off the ocean (i.e. into and left to right) is not blowing. The bunkers and rough right, and rough over the green mean that you can't really run the ball OOB, unless the ball is really travelling, but an aerial shot is fraught with danger. The slope of the hill also means that a low shot naturally plays away from the trouble whereas an aerial shot doesn't. It's a really fun hole that looks really dangerous but actually isn't if you think your way down the hole.

Ed

[David Davis]

Ed,

I'll be curious to see what if anything the guys come up with. I can't think of a whole that should be played on the ground off the tee, especially  sans wind. I can think of many approaches that play equally as good if not better on the ground but in most cases that's due to harsh winds as well. I would not necessarily agree that the hole pictured below can not be attacked in the air. It does require a choice and perhaps that makes it fun but I can see many ways to play it as long as the turf is firm and not soggy from water run-off.

[Jon Wiggett]

Mark,

the course I grew up playing, Dewsbury & District GC used to have a short par 3 of about 125 yards that played down a moderate slope to a circular green of about 15 yards in diameter benched into the hillside. You could play it by flying the ball to the green which would usually hold but if you were slightly short or to either the ball would kick on to a position well below the green leaving a treacherous lob shot back with little chance of saving par. I discovered that the best way to play the hole was to play a low running shot with a short iron that carried about 60 yards and then ran the rest of the way. This way you avoided going to far and so made making par so much easier.

Jon

[Mark Pearce]

Seems as if there's a theme here.  I used to play golf at Rickmansworth, which had previously been Moor Park Ladies.  The third hole there is a steeply downhill par 3 of 70 yards.  In firm conditions it was almost impossible to fly the ball to the green (which ran away from you) and keep it anywhere near a front pin location.  Anything flown and landed short would kick forwards and through.  A ball landed on the front of the green might stop in the back quarter.  The only way to play the hole with a pin in the front half was to chip and run it down the hill.

[Paul Jones]

New South Wales - especially hole 5

[David Davis]

This is a question of semantics really. A 70 yd hole for example is more a pitch and putt and in firm conditions sure bumping a shot on the ground is no problem.

I just don't really consider hitting a ball 250 yds in the air and having it roll out a bit as playing it on the ground I guess. My feeling was more aimed at approaches. If one considers every single shot that lands short of a green and rolls on playing it on the ground then almost every hole at most links courses can be played in this way, or not. The firmer the conditions the higher the necessity.

[Mark Fedeli]

Good point, David. I think the focus should be on a hole that is designed to overwhelmingly promote a low, running shot—the carry distance of which may vary by player. A ball must get airborne to get going, so there's no true opposite to a hole that requires a full aerial carry, but what's the closest thing? The fact that players would still have an aerial option makes the hole more interesting than something like the 17th at Sawgrass.

[Adam Clayman]

I can't think of a whole that should be played on the ground off the tee, especially  sans wind. I can think of many approaches that play equally as good if not better on the ground but in most cases that's due to harsh winds as well.

DD, Then you haven't played the East course at Winged Foot with Neil Regan. A par 3 with an integrated approach so well designed, Neil uses his putter from 207y.

[James Boon]

Perhaps the guys that know the course better (Sean) can add to this, but how about the 18th at Kington?

Shortish par 4, played downhill and all the ground slopes left to right towards the hole. I tried flying it all the way and pulled it slightly and my ball stayed up left of the green. However a young kid just in front of me playing with his Grandad who didnt have the length to fly it there, listened to his Grandad (I wish I had) and played his ball out low and left and it ran and ran and ran and eventually found the front edge of the green. It was great to see him so excited about it!

Cheers,

James

[David Davis]

I can't think of a whole that should be played on the ground off the tee, especially  sans wind. I can think of many approaches that play equally as good if not better on the ground but in most cases that's due to harsh winds as well.

DD, Then you haven't played the East course at Winged Foot with Neil Regan. A par 3 with an integrated approach so well designed, Neil uses his putter from 207y.

Adam,

If Neil can hit his putter 207 yds on the turf at Winged Foot then there is a really good chance he can putt on the hole in the photograph and get the ball on the green if the turf is as firm as some UK courses. In fact, he may perhaps have to only hit about 185 yds if he judges the slope correctly.

There is almost always an exception to the rule. 

[Matt Schiffer]

Have you guys seen The Preserve at Bandon yet?  Wind or not, holes 5 and 13 are the most obvious examples of holes where you'd be better served to kick the ball off the tee than try to land the green.  My novice-golfer wife topped both of her tee shots to better positions than her should-know-better husband...

Hole 5 - A steep slope to the left of the green makes the smart play a pitch to just above the fairway bunker and let it roll its way down.  This view is from the back tee.  Other tees are to the right and involve no carry.


Hole 13 - just kick and enjoy!

[Matt_Cohn]

There's a pretty clear pattern here — broad landing area, significant slope or funnel to the green. if you fly it, you might miss the funnel effect, but if you roll it you're pretty much guaranteed to catch it.

[Mark Fedeli]

There's a pretty clear pattern here — broad landing area, significant slope or funnel to the green. if you fly it, you might miss the funnel effect, but if you roll it you're pretty much guaranteed to catch it.

Or catching a downslope on the fly and being propelled over the green.

The biggest aspect is probably a punishment that is much more severe for a mis-played aerial shot than a ground shot. We're essentially looking at risk/reward holes where the strategy decision is high/low instead of left/right or near/far.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()