[Alan Ritchie]

so I'm pretty excited about heading to Melbourne tomorrow for a few days, under the guise of watching some tennis when in actual fact I have the National  Moonah  and St. Andrews beach lined up for Tuesday and metropolitan on Wednesday .

what should I be looking out for from an architecture point of view? what might I otherwise miss out on/ not appreciate with only one round at each course?

[Tim_Weiman]

Alan,

Be sure to let us know how St Andrews Beach is doing these days. It is my favorite course by Tom Doak.

I found there were a very large number of shots I would enjoy playing over and over again. Wish I lived right down the street.

One thing to note: if you look at SAB on Google earth you will see the course is right by the water. But, don't be deceived. There aren't views of the water. The course kind of sits in a valley. Honestly, I think this is a good thing. The golf course is the star, not the setting.

Aside from that, Melbourne, obviously, is one of the great golf cities in the world. If possible, try to also check out Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath. There are actually quite a few really good Sandbelt courses, but these two are definitely a must see for golf architecture junkies.

[James Bennett]

Alan

I suspect you will sleep really well on Tuesday night after the 90 minute drive down and back, and the challenging walk around the Cups Country at St Andrews Beach and National Moonah.  There are some large rollercoaster dunes down there, and a number of uphill climbs.  Be prepared, hydrated and sun smart.  I hope you are young and fit.

I think you will appreciate the quality of the tie-ins of the surrounds and greens of the two courses.
The bunkering style will be worth a comment from you - very different to sand-belt, but real hazards with a similar sand.  Interesting to compare the outcomes from Norman/Harrison at Moonah with Doak at St Andrews Beach.  Especially compared to other architects on adjacent courses on the Mornington Peninsula with a more traditional style.

You will also have different fairway grasses - National Moonah with the CT2 couch with fescue oversow ad some poa providing a perfect surface, StAB with legend couch providing a different, coarser couch and then Metro with the superfine and fast Santa Ana (with a little wintergreen)

James B (tennis today)

[Mike_Clayton]

Tim
I feel bad - I played a quick 6 holes at St Andrews Beach last night - because I am lucky enough to live a mile down the street. The course is in great shape and as fun as ever. There are so many holes you never tire of playing.

Alan

I played National Moonah last week and they have the best fairways on the mainland - Only Barnbougle's all fescue surfaces are better. Bruce Grant oversewed the original couch fairways with fescue and since there has been some poa infiltration but they are beautiful surfaces to play irons from - as James points out.
Most would say Metropolitan's are 'better' so it will be interesting to see what you think. I like that the Moonah course has move variety of lies whereas every fairway lie at Metro is exactly the same.

James,

Don't you think Moonah National and St AB were the courses done in 'traditional style' and it is the others which went off on a different track?

The Moonah course is really good - probably harder that St Andrews Beach but also fun to play. The 11th hole does get a long way from the clubhouse and from there it has always seemed like a route march all the way back to the clubhouse. I played the final 3 holes last week with Driver, 3 wood 20 yards short (16) hrbrid at 17 and driver, 3 wood 20 short at 18.

[James Bennett]

Mike

in terms of golf, I would put Metro's fairways third to St AB, with National Moonah first.  If Moonah's fairways were another mm or two longer, they could be perfect, but that is nit-picking.

The bunkering at St Andrew's Beach and Nat Moonah is good - real hazards (Moonah's bunkers destroyed me!), but they aren't typical "member's club" bunkers.  It would be an educated membership that appreciated the bunkers.

James B

ps - yesterday was a day of quartering winds at National Moonah - slightly with or slightly into you all day.  Nothing impossible and nothing easy.  And only the wildest and widest of shots needed looking for.

[Josh Stevens]

Bring your credit card.
Its been a while since I have paid a green fee around Melbourne as I have reciprocal access options at everywhere decent, but I am told the visitors fees can be eye watering.

Although the weak aussie dollar will take the sting out of it.

Also bring a hat.  When the tennis is on, you can be guaranteed that at some point the temperature will be about a million degrees.

[Tim_Weiman]

Mike Clayton,

Put me down as officially jealous!

Happy to hear thing are in good shape at SAB.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Put me down as even more excited about my trip March and April😄😄😄

[JC Jones]

Put me down as thinking that with the treatment the Aussies get when they come stateside someone ought to be hooking Alan up with a game at Royal Melbourne.

[Chris Kane]

Really Josh? The overseas visitor fees for a manager's guest on the best courses in Melbourne are comparable to the private Open rota courses:

RM $400
KH $350
Turnberry $460
Muirfield $386
Birkdale $377
Troon $377
Lytham $331
Hoylake $322
Sandwich $312

The reality is that premium golf without a member is very expensive anywhere!

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The pre visit hospitality shown towards me has been beyond fantastic.....even if I did make a few unknown errors in communication..hmmmhmmm Chris and Matthew

[Chris Kane]

JC Jones, that is a little inflammatory - has any Australian being gifted access to a world top 10 course in America after 14 posts?

You will find that American visitors are very well looked after by the GCA brethren here, it is by no means a one way street.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

JC Jones, that is a little inflammatory - has any Australian being gifted access to a world top 10 course in America after 14 posts?

You will find that American visitors are very well looked after by the GCA brethren here, it is by no means a one way street.

Refer to post above....unbelievable hospitality shown pre trip...members,pros et al...can't give enough thanks

[Josh Stevens]

Those prices are steep when you translate into little old Aussies.  Most I ever paid for golf was 120 quid for annual stock exchange match at Sandwich and that was two rounds plus lunch.  For some reason they didn't include wine

I think I may be a tight arse.  Is that really what they charge at Turnberry now??  Did prices go up after it was trumped. Part of the Donalds plan of keeping the oiks out?

[Mike_Clayton]

Alan

On Wednesday at Metro see if you can play the 19th hole. It comes after the 5th and replaced the original was lost in the early 60s.

If you can't play it - i.e you are holding someone up behind- at least go and look at it from the tee.
I may be there on Wednesday and probably also at St AB on Tuesday. Look for the brown MacKenzie Walker bag.

[JC Jones]

JC Jones, that is a little inflammatory - has any Australian being gifted access to a world top 10 course in America after 14 posts?

You will find that American visitors are very well looked after by the GCA brethren here, it is by no means a one way street.

Every report I've heard is the Aussies are tremendously hospitable.

To answer your question though, Dustin Knight comes to mind.

[Chris Kane]

Let's flip this around then - had I started a thread in November mentioning that I was going to be passing through Pebble Beach the next week, would it be appropriate for someone to write:

"With the tremendous hospitality the Yanks get down under, someone really ought (my emphasis) to be hooking Chris up with a game at Cypress Point".

Not to harp on this, with enough notice people tend to be looked after however I don't think its right to imply that anyone has some sort of obligation.

[Chris Kane]

Josh, it is crazy expensive - I had thought the increases would slow post 2008 but they didn't.

[JLahrman]

And don't skip the tennis. You may not be a big tennis fan like I am, but with the tournament centrally located and easy to access, it's a fun way to spend a day.

[Alan Ritchie]

fortunately I'm only traveling from sydney so will not have to pay the full international rate! I'm thinking however that St. Andrews beach at 59 dollars may well be a bargain! and thanks mike I'll look out for that bag!

[Josh Stevens]

Im not sure we are that much more hospitable.  Rather I think it is easier to dig up a member at these clubs simply because there are so many more of them.

Royal Melbourne would probably have 3000 members so you can hardly cross the street without tripping over one of the buggers. Cypress would be lucky to have 300.  You have to like those odds.  The economics of golf is a very different proposition down here.

[Chris Kane]

Josh, I don't disagree with you but I'm not sure how relevant it is. It may be easier to find a member to host at RM compared to Cypress but it still involves that member taking on the responsibility and making the time to play. Some would find that daunting where there is a very tenuous association with the guest.

[Josh Stevens]

Yes that's true, but then I cant vouch for how one would be expected to behave at Cypress and the repercussions of bringing along a guest who didn't know which fork to use.

I have had one bad experience bringing a guest I didn't know well to my club who turned out to be an idiot.  Nothing too serious, but just the sort of fellow who only gets invited once.  I think most clubs in Australia want members to be proud of their course and are happy for them to want to show it off, and getting the odd moron is just an occupational hazard.  As long as it doesn't become a habit

[Mark_F]

so I'm pretty excited about heading to Melbourne tomorrow for a few days, under the guise of watching some tennis when in actual fact I have the National  Moonah  and St. Andrews beach lined up for Tuesday and metropolitan on Wednesday .

what should I be looking out for from an architecture point of view? what might I otherwise miss out on/ not appreciate with only one round at each course?

Use the strongest possible sunscreen you can buy - at this time of the year in Melbourne, the UV index is always extreme, even on overcast and rainy days. 

Expect the unexpected at St Andrews Beach. Hopefully they will have some of the more interesting pins out - back left at 2, front right at 4, middle far right on 5, front of 9.  A lot of people criticise the course because of the apparently small greens, but it is the ideal landing spot in the fairway that is often harder to obtain.

And take a cart at one of Moonah or St Andrews Beach - you won't be able to play Wednesday if you don't.

[Alan Ritchie]

thanks mark, though as a pasty ginger Scotsman I don't leave my house without the factor 30 for fear of spontaneous combustion. I thought I would try avoid the carts if possible. starting off on the moonah so I'll see how I feel after that

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