[Jason Thurman]

It's time to admit that I was unimpressed with Canterbury when I first saw it.

Oh, I knew it was a good test. I appreciated its variety and thought the greens were a really strong set. But for a course so heralded, it seemed a little subdued. I had to wonder why it didn't have more sexy holes like 15. It seemed pretty workmanlike otherwise.

Yet, as I walked off the course and went about a night full of Top 100 things like welcome showers, gaudy shirts, steak, five-layer chocolate cake, billiards, and beer, I couldn't shake the feeling that I had a puzzle to solve. I had putted off the green from 20 feet away at the first. I had walked with a swagger from the spot where I went pinseeking on the 9th right up until I saw the slope that lay between my ball and the hole, and been generally confounded by why my "good shots" weren't turning out all that good. The course was clearly booby-trapped, and I had to play it again the next morning.

I began to really appreciate Canterbury during that second round, as I found myself consciously playing away from pins to make sure I could two-putt and alternating between overcautious bailouts off the tee and overconfident recoveries on approaches. There was an ebb and flow to the course that I started to really enjoy. I've never tried to put my finger on what it was that appealed to me about the course in that second round, but it was as much fun as I'd ever had on a golf course despite the weather and the halved match against The Godfather.

My appreciation for Canterbury has only grown in the three months since. As the weather has gotten colder and the course has cemented itself as the last great venue I visited in 2014, I've thought back to those two rounds many times. Only a few courses have ever actively grown in my esteem for months AFTER I last played them, and Canterbury has accomplished that rare feat. For those who have played it, I'm wondering if you've also found that the course has grown on you, either over multiple plays or, like me, over lulls between plays. If so, what aspects of the course do you think have helped it to grow in that manner?

For those who haven't played it, are there other courses that have grown on you after playing them, and why did they do so?

[Mark Chaplin]

HS Colt was a great GCA?

[Jason Thurman]

Wrong Canterbury. I'm talking about the one in Cleveland.

[Jon Wiggett]

Wrong Canterbury. I'm talking about the one in Cleveland.

So no cathedral either

[Mark Bourgeois]

HS Colt was a great GCA?

That his best designs may only have been 'least bad' but that his 'bad' actually was good?

[Matt Meyer]

What's not to like about Canterbury?! In recent years it has become overlooked in the golf rich mecca called Ohio.  It's a strong test of golf for any skill level, allowing players to hit every club in the bag. Canterbury demands the golfer to shape tee shots both directions and it's consistently one of the best conditioned courses in Ohio. The golf holes have a very natural flow and beauty that can be overlooked in just a single visit. I've often thought that the high difficulty level of holes 16,17 and 18 can leave the golfer frustrated but this ultimately just  adds to the charm and tradition of this historic golf club.

Canterbury is a must play for GCA'ers spending time in Cleveland!

[Ken Fry]

Jason,

It's funny you bring this up.  I've also been thinking about our event at Canterbury.  I finally came to a very simple conclusion:  2 rounds can't do Canterbury justice.

I love the history of the course and the events played there.  The property surprised me with the amount of movement.  The course is not "in your face" with either challenge or incredible vistas so immediate impressions are not overwhelming.  Based on our weekend, I never felt the trees were a problem or made the course feel claustrophobic.  If you hit into the trees, the property is kept so clean recovery shots were straight forward, although not always providing the heroic shot at the green.  The only odd areas for me were the fairway on hole 1 (the playing corridor is extremely wide yet the fairway bends with the dogleg making a 30-40 yard wide area of rough on the left side) and the "canoe" style bunkers that protected the back of a few greens.  The bunkers looked odd and a bit out of place.

I enjoy seeing something unique and hole #15 certainly provided that.  The drop from the tee then the climb to the green was exhilarating.  The last three holes get a lot of attention for their difficulty but there's so much strategy involved in 16 and 18.  Both require intelligent placement of shots, just not pure power.  My favorite hole is still #4.  The use of the ridge from the fairway through the huge green provides a great challenge.

Canterbury is a great example of an old, classic members course.  It can host big tournaments but can still be fun for the membership.

Ken

[DFarron]

You guys were fortunate that you played after the deforestation program they initiated a few years ago. The vistas from #1, 2, 3, 4, and 9 are much better. Number 4 from the back tees is one of my favorite holes ever!

[Mark Bourgeois]

Brian, instead of complaining why not share what lessons can be learnt from Canterbury (in addition to the main one being that Colt was a great architect)?

[Rick Shefchik]

I couldn't have told you exactly where in Ohio it was located, but this isn't an obscure golf course. The club's website makes a pretty convincing case that anybody interested in golf history ought to be familiar with Canterbury:

From the 1932 Western Open to the 2009 Senior PGA Championship Canterbury has hosted 13 Major Championships.

Canterbury is one of only two Clubs in history to have hosted all five of the men's Major Championships that rotate sites. (The US Open, PGA Championship, US Amateur, Sr. US Open and Sr. PGA Championship). And the list of champions is equally impressive.

    Walter Hagen - 1932 Western Open
    Ralph Guldahl - 1937 Western Open
    Lawson Little - 1940 U.S. Open
    Lloyd Mangrum - 1946 U.S. Open
    William Campbell - 1964 U.S. Amateur
    Jack Nicklaus - 1973 P.G.A. Championship
    Mark O'Meara - 1979 U.S. Amateur
    Miller Barber - 1983 Senior T.P.C.
    Arnold Palmer - 1984 & 1985 Senior T.P.C.
    Chi Chi Rodriguez - 1986 Senior T.P.C.
    Dave Stockton - 1996 Senior U.S. Open
    Michael Allen - 2009 Senior P.G.A. Championship

[Mark Chaplin]

Jason I was pointing out GCA is worldwide not just in the USA. You could equally have been referring to courses in Canada or New Zealand.

[Rick Shefchik]

Nope, so I looked it up. New course replaced the original in 1993. Hosted three Irish Opens since then. Compared to two U.S. Opens, a PGA Championship and two U.S. Amateurs? I'm not seeing the comparison.

[Frank M]

I think Canterbury is a great course. It more than exceeded my expectations. The layout takes advantage of some nice topography, but the one thing I fail to see that others seem to love is the 15th. I don't get the love for that hole. It felt totally out of place for me. 

[Ken Fry]

I think Canterbury is a great course. It more than exceeded my expectations. The layout takes advantage of some nice topography, but the one thing I fail to see that others seem to love is the 15th. I don't get the love for that hole. It felt totally out of place for me. 

Frank, for me it was the uniquness of the hole and the varied challenges.  Decisions begin at the tee to place your drive near the end of the fairway providing a shorter shot but also a blind approach or laying back for a better view but a longer club.  The green is large and judging the approach shot is challenging because the lie from the fairway is usually downhill.

The hole doesn't strike me as out of character with the rest of the course.  Strong utilized a challenging section of the property which provides a challenge I haven't seen very often.

Ken

[Frank M]

Ken: I understand those sentiments. I unfortunately don't sympathize with them. For me, it feels like the hole was squeezed in as much as any hole I've ever seen before. For a routing with such good flow, I was surprised when I came to the 15th even though I had read about it and seen it in photo.

[Mac Plumart]

Three things stand out to me regarding Canterbury.

1). The turf is perfect for golf.
2). The walk is excellent. Meaning it is enjoyable, the holes and challenges flow well from one to the next.
3). Uniqueness. Those closing stretch of holes bring some incredible uniqueness to the course and leave a lasting impression.

[BCowan]

''I don't want to catch a bunch of flack for this, but I actually believe this would make a better par-3. ''

Frank,

that would lead to a pretty long walk to the 16th tee.  Would a tram be implemented for your new par 3, similar to #17 at Kirtland?

My favorite hole at Canterbury is #12, the tee shot is blind, it punishes you for being greedy off the tee.  The green complex is very cool, like the bunker or grass bunker behind the green (can't remember).  Green slopes severely back to front.  I agree with Doak, that it is best to wait a month and reflect on a course after the first play, it really gives a course a chance to soak in.

I enjoyed 4, 7, 8, 9, 12, and 13

[Frank M]

BCowan: If memory serves me well I don't think it would be that long a walk. I think the hole is around 360 yards and you would just leave right straight off the 14th green. I'd say about a 100 yard walk to a possible back tee? It's not exactly 10 feet, but there are definitely worse walks at plenty of great golf courses.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I walked Canterbury last spring and wasn't terribly impressed. It is a very easy walk, and nothing stands out as offensive, but there isn't really anything exciting out there either. The big slog up the hill on #15 is solid, as is #16 that follows, but I feel like if the first 14 holes weren't so benign, than it wouldn't feel half as climactic.

It felt to me like a course that everyone would look around the room and agree that "its fair". That doesn't do anything for me. There were no greens that stood out to me as anything to write home about. And it felt like there were a number of holes where the front right corner of the green was the "Sunday Pin" with a carry over a flashed up bunker. I know they have some restorative work planned, I can only hope there are some interesting features that Bruce Hepner can bring back.

[Ken Fry]

I don't generally consider a bigger layup than laying up a great option if you get what I mean.

Frank,

Absolutely get what you mean.  For me, the interest in the tee shot comes from proper placement not only in distance but which side of the fairway based on pin location.  And hitting the fairway is a must!  I believe the hole is still a transitional hole to get from #14 to the great three finishing holes which explains the relative short nature of the tee shot (based on modern distances).  Even with modern equipment, I found the approach a thrilling shot.  While playing in the Midwest Mashie, I remembered Ran's comment in his Canterbury profile when he highlighted the 15th:  " ...., it is the forty foot embankment that the golfer must scale with his approach shot that gives the hole its fearsome visual appearance. Especially in the days of hickory golf, this hole was a bear for the typical member."

Ken

[Jason Thurman]

Jaeger, I think your impression is what most people would get from walking the course without playing. Nothing too special, nothing really eye-catching, the most notable elements are a big embankment and a hole that stands out as unusually long on the scorecard. The comments on the greens are especially humorous to anyone who has played the course. I'm not sure there's a pin position on 1, 3, 8, 9, 10, 13, 15, or 17 that ISN'T a "Sunday pin."

I actually think this benign appearance is the key to the course's brilliance. At courses like Crystal Downs and Pinehurst No. 2, you can be out of position and not even realize it until after the ensuing shot. At Canterbury, you can get out of position and not even realize it until a few hours after the round is over, if you ever realize it at all. I played quite well in my second round there, at least for the first 15 holes, and I don't think I would have really understood the course if I hadn't seen how tough it was to score on it and how many options and risk/reward opportunities it presents to a player who's in control of his irons.

I got a little sloppy on the last three holes of that round, which brings me to Frank's point. We played 15 as our 17th hole, and I hit a Furyk-style pull-hook off the tee that should've gone OB but instead hit a tree and came back in, but still 220 yards out. With the ball in the rough and a poor lie, it was a pretty daunting second shot. I didn't catch it very clean, and watching and hoping as the ball sailed toward the embankment was pretty nerve-racking until it landed safely on the other side. For my game, I'd have a BLAST if this hole was a 230+ yard par 3, though I suspect some slower-swing speed players would be pretty frustrated by it. As is, I think it's a visually superb hole that doesn't have a ton of strategic interest, although the final 70 yards offers a lot of interesting scrambling.

I think Ken said it well - 2 rounds don't do Canterbury justice, and I believe the primary reason is the course's lack of visual panache. It's very hard to identify trouble spots until you're in them, or even after you've played from them. Most courses offer something that tips you off to how they should be attacked. Canterbury really doesn't, and yet the underlying strategies of the course are still tied together and make sense as you uncover them.

[Tim_Weiman]

I walked Canterbury last spring and wasn't terribly impressed. It is a very easy walk, and nothing stands out as offensive, but there isn't really anything exciting out there either. The big slog up the hill on #15 is solid, as is #16 that follows, but I feel like if the first 14 holes weren't so benign, than it wouldn't feel half as climactic.

It felt to me like a course that everyone would look around the room and agree that "its fair". That doesn't do anything for me. There were no greens that stood out to me as anything to write home about. And it felt like there were a number of holes where the front right corner of the green was the "Sunday Pin" with a carry over a flashed up bunker. I know they have some restorative work planned, I can only hope there are some interesting features that Bruce Hepner can bring back.

Jaeger,

Thanks for letting us know Bruce is doing some work at Canterbury. Love to visit with Bruce and see what he comes up with.

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