16th green at North Berwick. Is it puttable?

[Gary Sato]

Looking at the photo on GCA, I was surprised at this green.  While I have putted on numerous Biarritz greens, this green narrows before entering the dip and is irregular on the sides.  It takes a Biarritz greens to a new dimension.

For those who have played it, please discuss.

Questions: 
How fast is the green?
How often is the pin on the far right plateau?
What is the best angle to approach the green?




From the web site,

[Ronald Montesano]

I guess I wouldn't care if it was puttable. I'd be there and would have a blast trying.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Very puttable.

You can use the slopes from any part of one plateau to reach any part of the other once you judge the speed.

[Dave McCollum]

There were three of us playing NB for the first time.  We liked it so much we played it again after lunch.  One of our caddies, Alec, had just stepped down as the Captain of his club at NB.  Really a terrific guy, very knowledgeable, loved his course, and added a lot of fun to the round.

The pin on 16 was on the front plateau.  We probably butchered the hole.  I don’t remember the putts or scores.  What I do remember is after putting out Alec had the three of us each take three balls and try to putt from the back plateau to the front pin.  That’s nine putts.  Not one ball ended up being on the green.  We laugh at stuff like that, always play match play, don’t care much about shooting a score, and were all mediocre players with caps in the 10-12 range.  Still, I can’t recall another green that required so much local knowledge.  I think I putted last, had the benefit of watching six previous putts, and still couldn’t keep a putt on the green.  Thanks Alec for the memories.

[Bill_McBride]

There were three of us playing NB for the first time.  We liked it so much we played it again after lunch.  One of our caddies, Alec, had just stepped down as the Captain of his club at NB.  Really a terrific guy, very knowledgeable, loved his course, and added a lot of fun to the round.

The pin on 16 was on the front plateau.  We probably butchered the hole.  I don’t remember the putts or scores.  What I do remember is after putting out Alec had the three of us each take three balls and try to putt from the back plateau to the front pin.  That’s nine putts.  Not one ball ended up being on the green.  We laugh at stuff like that, always play match play, don’t care much about shooting a score, and were all mediocre players with caps in the 10-12 range.  Still, I can’t recall another green that required so much local knowledge.  I think I putted last, had the benefit of watching six previous putts, and still couldn’t keep a putt on the green.  Thanks Alec for the memories.

The first time I played there, my caddy said you putt from one plateau to another by putting straight at the hole, the breaks cancel out!

He told me that after I putted into the swale from just off the green to a hole cut in the back of the front plateau.  I hit the putt a little right of the line he gave me and whoosh! Down into the swale!

[Sven Nilsen]

Calling any green with a swale in the middle a "Biarritz green" is a bit of a misnomer, especially when you're referring to this particular golf hole.
 

[Tony_Muldoon]

For those who have played it, please discuss.

Questions:  
How fast is the green?
How often is the pin on the far right plateau?
What is the best angle to approach the green?

I'm guessing but the course is busy with a lot of visitors and I doubt it ever stimps above 9 unless it's set up for Open Qulaifying.
I would guess that the back plateua is used less than 20% of the time. Probably mostly on a Saturday when the Club competitions are held.
Normally the windis behind yo and a good drive down the right hand side leaves you with a wedge down the line of the frist section.  Simon Holt may join in here.  He's a fine Cat 1 golfer and somwhere on here he's posted to the effect that in a 1000 rounds as boy and man he could barely remember hitting and holding the back section.  The play to the back is to come in from the centre of the course and aim for the LHS of the swale with a low runner.

The angle of the photo makes the swale look more 'jagged' than it really is, and as Bill says you can certainly put from front to back. I suspect Alec was having some fun with you.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Played it four times and was on the wrong side every time.

Green speeds when we played were in the mid tens and I really had no issue putting. After playing the courses there you tend to get a better felling for the giant greens. Twice I came in from the fairway and once from each side , consistency is not my fortee.  Since the approach shot is bounced in you really are at the whims of the landing area. Just staying on the green was a treat.

It has to be on everyone's bucket list, it really is a special place. The hotel is cool too, I had a room you could play racquetball in it was so big. A four poster kingsized bed and a great bar. Heaven on earth.

[Mark Pearce]

Green speeds when we played were in the mid tens

That would be surprising.  As Tony suggests it is very rare indeed for good links courses to have greens much above 9 except in very high level competition.

[Randy Thompson]

Bet it was a bitch to grow in! Five years?

[Ed Brzezowski]

They were mid tens, it was bone dry every time . Plus I use a Stimpmeter a lot in course rating so I am fairly sure they were not at nine.
However I will not argue, eight , nine or ten the course was a blast to play.

[Bryan Izatt]

In my experience, the pins seem to be set equally between the front tier and the back tier.

Since I've never been able to figure out how to hit any part of the green in regulation, I've never had to putt from one tier to the other in a round.  When you're getting on the green in 3 from the surrounds, it is not too hard to be on the right part.  I have however tried, for fun, the tier to tier putt in both directions multiple times.  As Bill says, it's basically straight if you get the right speed.  If the putt is too fast or too slow there's no telling where you'll end up, but it's usually not a good place.

The greens might be 10 on the stimp downwind - and it's often windy.

[Tom Kelly]

Calling any green with a swale in the middle a "Biarritz green" is a bit of a misnomer, especially when you're referring to this particular golf hole.
 

Unless I'm mistaken my understanding is that 16 at NB is the original 'Biarritz' green? The green in Biarritz built by Tom Dunn who was also responsible for this green, was based upon it.

http://www.northberwick.org.uk/dunn.html

Not sure how historically accurate it is but it seems sensible.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Calling any green with a swale in the middle a "Biarritz green" is a bit of a misnomer, especially when you're referring to this particular golf hole.
 

Unless I'm mistaken my understanding is that 16 at NB is the original 'Biarritz' green? The green in Biarritz built by Tom Dunn who was also responsible for this green, was based upon it.

http://www.northberwick.org.uk/dunn.html

Not sure how historically accurate it is but it seems sensible.

There's speculation and then there's...

Here's Bryan Izatt's photo of the 1895 map.  This is the right time frame for MacDonald and Dunn but the green shown is more oval than long and thin.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7473/15748804108_5544f6b529_k.jpg


Also see other past threads. The famous hole at Biarritz was uphill and as for the swale being part of the green well...


I've still to be convinced that anyone knows the full story here.

[Sven Nilsen]

Calling any green with a swale in the middle a "Biarritz green" is a bit of a misnomer, especially when you're referring to this particular golf hole.
 

Unless I'm mistaken my understanding is that 16 at NB is the original 'Biarritz' green? The green in Biarritz built by Tom Dunn who was also responsible for this green, was based upon it.

http://www.northberwick.org.uk/dunn.html

Not sure how historically accurate it is but it seems sensible.

You are mistaken.

[Gary Sato]

  What I do remember is after putting out Alec had the three of us each take three balls and try to putt from the back plateau to the front pin.  That’s nine putts.  Not one ball ended up being on the green. 

Exactly my point?

[Doug Siebert]

I recall chipping up within a few inches and putting across the swale while my dad finished out the hole, and having trouble getting closer than 10 or 12 feet of the hole.  My dad dropped a ball where I'd been putting from and lipped out, ending up a foot away.  It can be done