[JMEvensky]

A friend sent a newsletter from a club in Florida which says they've done this.

Could a Super or anyone else knowledgeable explain liquid overseeding in lay terms?

[Carl Johnson]

A friend sent a newsletter from a club in Florida which says they've done this.

Could a Super or anyone else knowledgeable explain liquid overseeding in lay terms?

Could they have simply put green dye on the course to make the dormant Bermuda green and appear to be over-seeded?  Our course is trying that this year for the first time.

[BCrosby]

JME -

Sounds like a clever insider superintendent joke. I intend to steal it.

Bob 

[Ben Lovett]

It's a pigment which is applied every other week

[Marc Haring]

Bent grass seed is very small. I have heard of super's taking out the filters from a sprayer and applying it that way. Best thing is to ask.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Bent grass seed is very small. I have heard of super's taking out the filters from a sprayer and applying it that way. Best thing is to ask.

I have NEVER heard of this being down through a sprayer and it would negate the reasoning to "liquid overseed." Dry products cannot go through the sprayers we have access to without water.

Liquid overseed is the use of pigments and products that allow the turf to be darker or green. Many companies now sell pigments-Par, Foursome, Envy, Turfscreen to name a few and these are usually sprayed with minors to enhance color and aesthetics. It's also allows the plant to be darker and absorb more sunlight.

It really keeps the golfer from having to deal with the transition of wet, slow greens/fairways in a time where the weather is generally the best to golf. This replaces overseeding (unless for a PGA Event or even a resort) and allow for cost savings because of fuels, fertilizer, seed and transition.

[Anthony_Nysse]

A friend sent a newsletter from a club in Florida which says they've done this.

Could a Super or anyone else knowledgeable explain liquid overseeding in lay terms?

Could they have simply put green dye on the course to make the dormant Bermuda green and appear to be over-seeded?  Our course is trying that this year for the first time.

Yup. It's becoming very popular.

[JMEvensky]

Thanks to all.

[Grant Saunders]

Here is a photo of the uniformity achieved by applying 1.5 grams per square metre of bentgrass seed through a modified sprayer. It is so much more efficient and even than a drop spreader. I was able to treat 10 hectares in about 3 hours

[Anthony_Nysse]

Here is a photo of the uniformity achieved by applying 1.5 grams per square metre of bentgrass seed through a modified sprayer. It is so much more efficient and even than a drop spreader. I was able to treat 10 hectares in about 3 hours

Modified being the key word. Some companies are now "blowing in" dry material, which forces the seed or granual through the canopy for seed to soil contact.
  It would be very hard to get clean edges on a green or fairway with a sprayer, impossible, really. Ryegrass would never fit and I don't know of anyone using brown top as an overseed, pro triv/bent and ryegrass

[Marc Haring]

Bent grass seed is very small. I have heard of super's taking out the filters from a sprayer and applying it that way. Best thing is to ask.

I have NEVER heard of this being down through a sprayer and it would negate the reasoning to "liquid overseed." Dry products cannot go through the sprayers we have access to without water.

Liquid overseed is the use of pigments and products that allow the turf to be darker or green. Many companies now sell pigments-Par, Foursome, Envy, Turfscreen to name a few and these are usually sprayed with minors to enhance color and aesthetics. It's also allows the plant to be darker and absorb more sunlight.

It really keeps the golfer from having to deal with the transition of wet, slow greens/fairways in a time where the weather is generally the best to golf. This replaces overseeding (unless for a PGA Event or even a resort) and allow for cost savings because of fuels, fertilizer, seed and transition.

Sorry Anthony, I did mean mix with water and spray.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Marketing speak really pisses me off, but at the same time I completely understand why it's done.  I guess it pisses me off that people aren't able to see through the BS (myself included at times).

If "Liquid Overseeding" is spraying a dye on the dormant grass so it maintains a green color I can only imagine how some focus group/panel determined "Liquid Overseeding" is a good name to call the process.

Lets start at the beginning.  A course wants to keep it's grass green during the winter when the bermuda goes dormant (for whatever reason people like green grass).  People know what overseeding is and for whatever reason it's an accepted practice so lets keep it in the name even though we are not putting any seed over the grass.  Now what is it we are actually using, a liquid.  So as to prevent a lie lets call it liquid overseeding.

I agree it's a lot better than saying we are painting the fairways.

As a side note this is the first year for quite some time none of the courses at the Pinehurst resort are being overseeded.  Some of the courses, including #2 which has been painted for the last few years, are receiving the "liquid overseeding"/painting/pigment treatment.

[Carl Johnson]

I've assumed that the term "liquid overseeding" isn't meant seriously, but rather is tongue-in-cheek.

[JMEvensky]

I've assumed that the term "liquid overseeding" isn't meant seriously, but rather is tongue-in-cheek.

The newsletter I read was from the GM,explaining to the members  the "process". It sounded like a letter that gets written to show the membership that SOMETHING is being done to improve the golf course.

Maybe it's more euphemism than tongue-in-cheek--assuming there's a distinction with a difference.

It does seem to be mostly an aesthetic thing.

[Bill Brightly]

Wait a minute. Am I the only one confused here?

I get that "liquid overseeding" could well be a superintendent joke; they are really just painting the fairways because members don't like brown.

But then Grant shows us a drum and says he does this on his course.

So I will be the fall guy: is Grant continuing the joke on us "dumb members" or can you really overseed with a sprayer?

[Carl Johnson]

I've assumed that the term "liquid overseeding" isn't meant seriously, but rather is tongue-in-cheek.

The newsletter I read was from the GM,explaining to the members  the "process". It sounded like a letter that gets written to show the membership that SOMETHING is being done to improve the golf course.

Maybe it's more euphemism than tongue-in-cheek--assuming there's a distinction with a difference.

It does seem to be mostly an aesthetic thing.

What I've been told by our management, as I understand it:  (1)  It's essentially just aesthetic, but; (2) aesthetics are important to golfers -- what's in the mind counts (I can understand the point); and (3) the darker surface will help the Bermuda warm up (absorbing heat from sun) and wake up a bit earlier in the spring, which in several past years we'd tried for by a late application of a chemical dye (including iron, I think, for color only) that made the still-dormant grass a darker brown.  I'm looking forward to seeing how the green dye experiment turns out, over the winter and into the spring.  Also, "it doesn't cost very much" (personally I have no idea what the costs are).

[Grant Saunders]

Wait a minute. Am I the only one confused here?

I get that "liquid overseeding" could well be a superintendent joke; they are really just painting the fairways because members don't like brown.

But then Grant shows us a drum and says he does this on his course.

So I will be the fall guy: is Grant continuing the joke on us "dumb members" or can you really overseed with a sprayer?

Hi Bill

No joking here on my part.

The photo is actually an empty seed bag that was placed on the ground in an area that I was spraying seed onto. The little brown dots are the bentgrass (browntop in this case but creeping bent is pretty much the same) and it was to demonstrate the eveness of application that can be achieved with low seed rates.

I am pretty sure that I could apply fescue and rye in the same manner but with some adjusting. While not your standard spray rig, I could easily use the same setup to apply fert or wetting agents.

Just because Anthony has NEVER heard of it being done, doest mean it cant be done.

I can dig up some photos of the process in action if anyone wants to see it.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Wait a minute. Am I the only one confused here?

I get that "liquid overseeding" could well be a superintendent joke; they are really just painting the fairways because members don't like brown.

But then Grant shows us a drum and says he does this on his course.

So I will be the fall guy: is Grant continuing the joke on us "dumb members" or can you really overseed with a sprayer?

Hi Bill

No joking here on my part.

The photo is actually an empty seed bag that was placed on the ground in an area that I was spraying seed onto. The little brown dots are the bentgrass (browntop in this case but creeping bent is pretty much the same) and it was to demonstrate the eveness of application that can be achieved with low seed rates.

I am pretty sure that I could apply fescue and rye in the same manner but with some adjusting. While not your standard spray rig, I could easily use the same setup to apply fert or wetting agents.

Just because Anthony has NEVER heard of it being done, doest mean it cant be done.

I can dig up some photos of the process in action if anyone wants to see it.

Back to the main topic.....

"Liquid overseed" has nothing to do with actuall seeding. It's the use of pigments and dyes to enhance the esthetics of greens, tees or fairways.

At least here in the states, real overseeding, such as that you see in the southwest and still some courses in the southeast, isn't done with sprayers. It's done with large drop seeders for the bulk areas and smaller, walk behind spreader for the "edges" to minimize seed going into areas undesired. These types of seeders would be the same type used to seed courses using bentgrass and bluegrass. Most real overseeding is done with poa triv, bentgrass and rye.

This link attached is from the USGA and include photos of a course that is on the "liquid overseed" program.

http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/article/lowe-switching-11-1-13.pdf

[Eric Johnson]

Wait a minute. Am I the only one confused here?

I get that "liquid overseeding" could well be a superintendent joke; they are really just painting the fairways because members don't like brown.

But then Grant shows us a drum and says he does this on his course.

So I will be the fall guy: is Grant continuing the joke on us "dumb members" or can you really overseed with a sprayer?

Hi Bill

No joking here on my part.

The photo is actually an empty seed bag that was placed on the ground in an area that I was spraying seed onto. The little brown dots are the bentgrass (browntop in this case but creeping bent is pretty much the same) and it was to demonstrate the eveness of application that can be achieved with low seed rates.

I am pretty sure that I could apply fescue and rye in the same manner but with some adjusting. While not your standard spray rig, I could easily use the same setup to apply fert or wetting agents.

Just because Anthony has NEVER heard of it being done, doest mean it cant be done.

I can dig up some photos of the process in action if anyone wants to see it.

Back to the main topic.....

"Liquid overseed" has nothing to do with actuall seeding. It's the use of pigments and dyes to enhance the esthetics of greens, tees or fairways.

At least here in the states, real overseeding, such as that you see in the southwest and still some courses in the southeast, isn't done with sprayers. It's done with large drop seeders for the bulk areas and smaller, walk behind spreader for the "edges" to minimize seed going into areas undesired. These types of seeders would be the same type used to seed courses using bentgrass and bluegrass. Most real overseeding is done with poa triv, bentgrass and rye.

This link attached is from the USGA and include photos of a course that is on the "liquid overseed" program.

http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/article/lowe-switching-11-1-13.pdf

Trust me, there are golf courses overseeding cool-season grass seed into a cool-season turf stand.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Wait a minute. Am I the only one confused here?

I get that "liquid overseeding" could well be a superintendent joke; they are really just painting the fairways because members don't like brown.

But then Grant shows us a drum and says he does this on his course.

So I will be the fall guy: is Grant continuing the joke on us "dumb members" or can you really overseed with a sprayer?

Hi Bill

No joking here on my part.

The photo is actually an empty seed bag that was placed on the ground in an area that I was spraying seed onto. The little brown dots are the bentgrass (browntop in this case but creeping bent is pretty much the same) and it was to demonstrate the eveness of application that can be achieved with low seed rates.

I am pretty sure that I could apply fescue and rye in the same manner but with some adjusting. While not your standard spray rig, I could easily use the same setup to apply fert or wetting agents.

Just because Anthony has NEVER heard of it being done, doest mean it cant be done.

I can dig up some photos of the process in action if anyone wants to see it.

Back to the main topic.....

"Liquid overseed" has nothing to do with actuall seeding. It's the use of pigments and dyes to enhance the esthetics of greens, tees or fairways.

At least here in the states, real overseeding, such as that you see in the southwest and still some courses in the southeast, isn't done with sprayers. It's done with large drop seeders for the bulk areas and smaller, walk behind spreader for the "edges" to minimize seed going into areas undesired. These types of seeders would be the same type used to seed courses using bentgrass and bluegrass. Most real overseeding is done with poa triv, bentgrass and rye.

This link attached is from the USGA and include photos of a course that is on the "liquid overseed" program.

http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/article/lowe-switching-11-1-13.pdf

Trust me, there are golf courses overseeding cool-season grass seed into a cool-season turf stand.

Most definitely. Every fall, I see/hear alot of Supts inter seeding roughs and such and lots of greens done last spring. But in this case, were talking about seeding bermudagrass for winter play. (Or not seeding)

[Steve Okula]

Here is a photo of the uniformity achieved by applying 1.5 grams per square metre of bentgrass seed through a modified sprayer. It is so much more efficient and even than a drop spreader. I was able to treat 10 hectares in about 3 hours

Grant,

Over 10 ha. I suppose that means you're doing fairways. What is your objective in seeding in that manner?

[Grant Saunders]

Here is a photo of the uniformity achieved by applying 1.5 grams per square metre of bentgrass seed through a modified sprayer. It is so much more efficient and even than a drop spreader. I was able to treat 10 hectares in about 3 hours

Grant,

Over 10 ha. I suppose that means you're doing fairways. What is your objective in seeding in that manner?

Steve

The goal is to alter the species composition of the fairways to produce a more drought tolerant and slower growing surface.

When I started, the fairways were rye/browntop/poa/fescue mix. The rye had been intentionally undersown in a couple of years prior to my starting. In my view, that introduction of rye proved a costly mistake as all mowing scheduling became dictated by that growth habit of the ryegrass. Cutting of 3 times a week was required based on the the growth of the rye while the other grasses where much slower.

Our region is the main seed production area for Browntop in New Zealand so it was an easy decision to identify Browntop as the main species we wished to work with. Some fescues exist naturally but none of the seeded varieties are comparable (I think the fescue seed may actually be grown in the US but Im not 100% sure).

Gradually removal of the rye has been undertaken using low rates of Metsulfuron (which browntop is very tolerant of) and overseeding to increase the browntop population. Currently we are probably at 50% browntop, 25% poa, 15% rye and 10% fescue.

Its a slow process (budget is extremely limited) but the results are proving worthwhile.

[Matt Wharton]

Gentlemen,

Pardon me for being late to the conversation but the term Liquid Overseeding in this context is tongue-in-cheek.  I do not know when the term was first established, and it may very well be the product of marketing and advertising, but it is a young practice that is becoming more common in the southeast. 

I am the superintendent at Carl's course (Carolina Golf Club) and we are experimenting with this concept for the first time this year on all tees and fairways.  Over the past four years I used products to color our dormant target greens on the practice facility to provide contrast.  Some years I also colored par 3 tees when I had product to spare.  After playing in a charitable fundraiser held at CCNC in Pinehurst back in early March my General Manager liked it and suggested we give it a go this off-season.  The process involves either the use of pigments or paints or some combination of the two (there is a difference).  I spoke with the golf course superintendent of CCNC and with Kevin Robinson of Pinehurst Resorts, Inc. to pick their brains about the process and their experiences.  I discovered there is no single correct method and each course determines what works best for their turf and their environment.

After enduring a long, cold winter last year and sources indicating we could be facing a repeat, I like the fact the darker canopy may retain a little more heat from the sun and possibly give the dormant bermudagrass a better chance of survival.  Sometimes a difference of one or two degrees is all that separates bermudagrass survival from winter injury or winter kill, and if the course is more visually appealing to my members throughout the offseason then it is worth it.
 

[Tom ORourke]

My club in South Carolina has two courses. We overseed the greens and tees and one course gets the fairways done, the other is left as is. This year we have painted the greens on both courses. Obviously cost seems to be a factor. But a possible benefit might be in the springtime when you do not have Bermuda coming alive and the dying bent sharing space. I would think the greens should come in more evenly in the spring. True? False? Right now our greens are putting great. It is nice they look good but the condition is the real key. I believe Aiken Golf Club has painted their greens in winter for a while.

[Anthony_Nysse]

My club in South Carolina has two courses. We overseed the greens and tees and one course gets the fairways done, the other is left as is. This year we have painted the greens on both courses. Obviously cost seems to be a factor. But a possible benefit might be in the springtime when you do not have Bermuda coming alive and the dying bent sharing space. I would think the greens should come in more evenly in the spring. True? False? Right now our greens are putting great. It is nice they look good but the condition is the real key. I believe Aiken Golf Club has painted their greens in winter for a while.

You're not dealing with overseeding/transition issues now and will not in the spring. In fact, the only issue on dormant ultradwafts is sometime the greens can get too fast! Fingers crossed the winter goes easy and you don't see any thinning on the edges, but painting and playing on semi or dormant UD's are a joy.

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