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Connor Dougherty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Playing on an 11-inch Cup and its overall effects
« on: October 15, 2014, 01:36:54 PM »
A few weeks ago I played in a tournament at Emerald Valley in Creswell, Oregon which featured 11-inch cups. Given that it has been highly contested on here, I thought it'd be a good idea to share some of my observations:

1. The round still took 5 hours. I was a little surprised by this, but the actual speed of golf was not improved. Surprisingly it made putts difficult to read, and the majority of putts would be bashed in hopes of hitting the hole, with missed puts going more than 5 feet by. The same amount of time was taken to read putts as would be on a standard golf hole, and the amount of "gimme's" was more limited than expected

2. As mentioned on here several times in debates, ball striking becomes a huge priority. As a 0.6 index, I was hitting the ball really poorly and ended up shooting a 79, while another scratch golfer I know shot 59, going 8 under on the front, hitting the ball particularly well.

3. The larger hole, coupled with a seemingly similar amount of putts, made the game particularly frustrating, both for myself and my playing partners. Part of it is not knowing if an 8-footer should be the equivalent of a 3 foot putt, but when you're looking at that big a target and missing, it makes the game far more frustrating.

4. While short range putting is devalued, putting from 20-30 feet becomes far more important and chipping, particularly with a significant chance of holing out, becomes far more intriguing. Emerald Valley is nothing to be cherished (although there are a few decent holes) and I would be interested to see a larger cups impact on a more interesting golf course.

Ultimately, I felt that it would be a fun thing to do every once in a while, something to spice up golf a bit, but to think that a larger hole will solve any of golfs problems is rather ludicrous.

I'm sure I left things out so I'll be happy to answer questions you guys have.
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing on an 11-inch Cup and its overall effects
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 02:11:02 PM »
What was the format?
1st tee/1st & 10th tee/shotgun? How many groups spread out over how many holes?

A lot of the pace of play is caused by administration.
Also, with a large cup there is more incentive to tuck them into corners of greens or on steeper contours because the target is so large

Brent Hutto

Re: Playing on an 11-inch Cup and its overall effects
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 02:15:01 PM »
If you took a bunch of people used to taking 5 hours to play a round and put them on the easiest course in the world with 24" cups placed dead center of every green, it would take them around 5 hours to play that round.

People tend to take almost exactly as long as they think it should take. Or longer if someone slower in front of them causes a delay.

Connor Dougherty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing on an 11-inch Cup and its overall effects
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 02:23:05 PM »
What was the format?
1st tee/1st & 10th tee/shotgun? How many groups spread out over how many holes?

A lot of the pace of play is caused by administration.
Also, with a large cup there is more incentive to tuck them into corners of greens or on steeper contours because the target is so large

I'll go back to check but I believe tee times were spaced out 10-15 minutes apart, all off the 1st tee. It wasn't particularly busy, but I was playing with a buddy behind a foursome. At the 10th we joined the twosome behind us, and ultimately found that while we were keeping up with the group in front, we weren't pressing too much. I think Brent's comment is more symbolic of why it took five hours more than anything
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

K Rafkin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing on an 11-inch Cup and its overall effects
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 03:11:00 PM »
What are the greens like on this course?

I dont particularly have much interest in shooting at an 11" cup, but i can imagine it would be alot of fun with crazy undulating super fast circus greens.

Is the goal of these greens to make golf more playable for beginners so they fall in love with the game, practice, and then go on to graduate to regular golf sort of like a kid graduates from training wheels?  Or is this supposed to be a new game all together?

The real problem with slow play is that one person in one group can slow down play for every single person on the course.  11" cups or not when you have 50 people on the course your odds of running into one of these individuals (or groups) is high. 

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing on an 11-inch Cup and its overall effects
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 01:15:11 AM »
What are the greens like on this course?

...

Schizophrenic. Some old and boringly flat, others improved Bandon Dunes style copies.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Playing on an 11-inch Cup and its overall effects
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 11:57:56 AM »
If you took a bunch of people used to taking 5 hours to play a round and put them on the easiest course in the world with 24" cups placed dead center of every green, it would take them around 5 hours to play that round.

People tend to take almost exactly as long as they think it should take. Or longer if someone slower in front of them causes a delay.

Hallelujah.

CALL QUICKER GOLFERS THROUGH.  ;) 
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich