The Bridge at Bridgehampton and/vs. Friar's Head

[Steve Lapper]

Matt,

    I too played the Bridge recently and have to say (with no patronization whatsoever) I agree with 90% of what you say and 100% of Happy Gilmore's assessment.
    I concur that the course is conditioned beautifully, tough from the black boxes (so therefore significantly tougher from further back and well deserved of at least mid74's to low75ish ratings. No question about having your long game in fine stride to get any enjoyment or score out of the track. The short areas are not that tough to recover from and that seems to be a flaw in the "demanding test of golf" category. The greens, while fast were well sized and gave plenty of recovery opportunities. The bunkers were steady,  more aestheticly penal than not.
    The course is no dog track but as Happy alluded to, it is considerably weaker in design and execution than nearby Atlantic.  I'm not sure I would rate it above the less-than worthy Maidstone you cite, but it doesn't even come close to Friar's Head, Shinny, NGLA, BB, Garden City, Atlantic, Westhampton or the Creek. All those are vastly more complete and interesting as well...a trait this Rees work loses way too quickly. This quite obviously leaves out Westchester's wonderful parkland courses as well. I'm not sure the Bridge would crack the state's top 12-14. It is especially vulnerable when one considers that an otherwise outstanding and huge piece of land was open here and this is the altogether too recent result.
   If I were you, I'd consider saving your battles for better Rees examples.

[JDoyle]

Matt,

I think it is pretty clear from your last post that you were indirectly making mention that you feel Maidstone is consistently overrated.  I happen to like the course very much.  I can agree with you that some of the holes, most notably #2, #11 and #15, are rather average or "pedestrian" as I think you put it.  Fair enough.  But the course also delivers holes that are among my favorites anywhere.  The stretch from 7 - 10 is world-class, plus the par three 14th and the par four 17th are true standouts.

I think a comparison to Fishers Island is an interesting one.  IMHO Fishers has the best strech of three holes (3, 4 & 5) in the world outside of PV's 13, 14 & 15.  Plus I love holes 7 - 14 as well.  However, Fishers finishes like the Red Sox in September.  The last four holes are very average, with the 18th, besides being bland is one of the shortest par fives I can remember playing.

I know that you have Fishers in your personal top 50.  I would be interested in your thoughts on a comparison of these two terrific courses.

[Jim_Michaels]

Slapper,

I agree with 98% of what Happy says and 99% of what you say and 50% of what Matt says about the issue of the Bridge.  

Can anyone cite an example of a Rees Jones course that outperforms its site's characteristics rather than underperforming them? Atlantic, perhaps? My feeling was that as much as I like Nantucket or Ocean Forest, they could have been better.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

When I see Matt write that Maidstone isn't anywhere close to the Bridge, I get this pain in my side..........

From laughing uncontrollably.

Matt,




But the thing I do respect most is Matt is not afraid to speak out his opinion. That is certainly very admirable!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

And NO!Those aren't Rees Jones bunkers in the photo. At least not yet!

[Matt_Ward]

Give an airplane ride to folks from the west coast (i.e. Emperor) and after a visit or two they are quick to laugh at people (to wit -- me) who have seen the courses in question a range of times from say 25-30 years of perspective plus played them a whole bunch more and it's quite amusing from my side of the aisle.  

Tommy -- get real almighty Emperor of "The Look." I don't doubt for a millisecond the quality of the dunes holes at Maidstone -- but where's the rest of the beef! Oh -- wait a second -- who cares how a course ultimately plays -- it's the "look" that counts big time. For a layout to be routinely included among the troika of SH and National is indeed hilarious because too many people are quick to rag on about the lack of quality holes at other courses (i.e. The Bridge and modern courses) but somehow develop Alzheimer's over no less than 1/3 of Maidstone's layout. And then you get the folks who chime in, "well when the wind blows 40-50 or more mph you should really see these holes. And blah, blah, blah! And if the queen had b*lls she'e be the king!

Jim Michaels:

Go see Olde Kinderhook in the Albany, NY suburbs and you'll find the answer to your question.

Jonathan Doyle:

Fisher's Island is one of the two Raynor courses I have in my personal top 50 -- the other being Camargo. To be frank -- Fisher's Island has quality holes through the bulk of the layout (not to mention the incredible scenery) -- it isn't a Maidstone which is disappointing in my book with the few exceptions already noted for the dunes holes.

I have said already that The Bridge suffers from the constant pattern of forcing players to go full out on the driver throughout the round. The longest of hitters can step down a notch but the elevation changes are a demanding sort for players unable to get the ball in play and with some distance off the tee to boot.

Fisher's Island also uses the property in a much more complete manner -- not just upo and down as you find at The Bridge. You get a wide differentiation of holes and the way they are routed through the site. When a course is short it needs to bring forward additional qualities because of the absence of length in order to hold the interest of the longer and better player. Fisher's Island does this beyond Maidstone and in my mind is way beyond the tired and boring holes you find at Shoreacres (see opening and closing holes as an example) -- another of the revered (but overrated Raynor courses) that is often touted by those here on GCA.

Nigel Walton:

To date I have not played Friar's Head and as is my custome (which others do not follow) I cannot comment on the merits / lack thereof of any course I have not played. I also do not comment on courses from just observing aerials and the like. I just don't have that talent as others do. I will say this -- the positive comments I have heard from a cross range of people has definitely made me interested to play it if that should come to pass.

slapper:

I hear what you say but have to offer the following. The Bridge does put pressure on the player to hit driver -- as someone who hits the ball a decent ways -- I can attest that The Bridge is extremely demanding off the tee from the tips in no less than the manner you get from BB.

A number of the other courses you mentioned don't have the type of intensity which I believe is the benchmark in seeing how much dexterity you have with the toughest club in the bag to hit consistently -- the driver. Some of the short layouts you cite (Maidstone, Westhampton, The Creek) all have a number of holes that are simply p-e-d-e-s-t-r-i-a-n. Yes, there are the renown holes at all of the three aforementioned courses but once again you and others have amnesia and forget to cite these holes. But, I forgot they were designed by "x" architect and they so much charm and help me while I get a kleenex and begin to sob at all this blather.

I have said that The Bridge falls behind SH, NGLA, BB, GCGC  in my personal listing of courses for the Island and I have played everything worth a lick there save for Friar's Head. There are issues with The Bridge and when you say recoveries are certainly less demanding I beg to differ. Play the course when the greens are mega firm -- as they are NOW -- and don't ever short side yourself. One other thing -- just make sure that any stray shot gets to the sand because if you get hung up in the high grass you're sure to make a major league donation in score.

People forget about the major elevation changes -- not just downhill -- that forces you to play long and high approaches. Many courses may have one of these holes -- The Bridge has several.

When you say The Bridge lacks for so much and then you have the gumption to harp to me about how great Hamilton Farm is I have to wonder (with all due respect mind you) when you have had your eyes last checked. You're the guy -- help me if I'm wrong -- who actually believes Hamilton Farm is in Jersey's top ten and that Somerset Hills is beyond Baltusrol Lower and that Shoreacres is really so wonderful.
R-e-a-l-l-y? Surely you jest ...

Mr. Sturges:

I have said over and over again that Shinnecock Hills is my personal #1 course in the USA. It has been tested at the highest level of competition and can be played by average members on a daily basis. As Tom Doak has said -- few can say such a thing.

I have also said that a very gentle tweaking oif SH (adding some length on a few holes -- such as the par-5 5th) is ALL that is needed for the '04 Open. I don't want Shinnecock to be the Carnoustie version for our national championship. SH has performed admirably in the '86 and '95 Opens and doesn't need to be some glorified bowling alley of 20-25 yard wide fairway that force players to club down on all the key holes. To paraphrase an expression mentioned about Ronald Reagan when others sought to change him -- let SH be SH.

Regarding National I would say much the same. These two courses are the bedrock of American architecture in my mind. NGLA was the cornerstone that pioneered what golf design should be and clearly Macdonald was a man way ahead of his time.

National doesn't come to life as Maidstone does for just a few holes IMHO. National has a superb ebb and flow of a cross section of the grandest schemes in golf design and quite frankly I believe is the quintessential member's course in the USA.

Regarding the last question -- let's say for arguments sake that Maidstone and Shoreacres would be among the list of courses I would say were great from yesteryear. I don't doubt they still have unique and special qualities -- but top 50 in the USA? Help me to hold back my weezing at such a thought. One other thing -- I have a good cross section -- at least I think I do -- of courses from the modern and classic eras among my personal courses of choice. When I see courses such as Plainfield CC and Wannamoisett still trailing the likes of the two just mentioned something is seriously wrong.

By the way -- I've been quite frank in my listing of courses how bout you do some soul searching and post yours? I'd be curious to see your listing of top modern courses from say 1960 on besides the likes of Sand Hills, Pac Dunes, etc, etc.

One last comment -- I have said The Bridge is not architecturally compelling in a significant way to be included in a top 100 listing but I also believe a few folks are being overly tough on a course that does have a number of positive features which I have pointed out. No, it's not in the company of the Island's premier courses but it's still got plenty more than a few of the other "pet" favorites that have been cited.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Yes Matt,
Looks like Gray Davis, but plays great! Sounds really exciting.....

Personally, I have never heard anyone ever say anything bad about Maidstone other then you. I also saw some pretty stout holes, given its +/-100 year existence. It's a classy place, with classy people a classy clubhouse and foremost classy golf holes. Much too classy for the likes of you and me. I love its architecture in a vacuum, and Maidstone excels at that, just like Garden City. And foremost, why does it have to be better then others? Why can't it just be simply GREAT?

I have to bring up the fact once again that I think you close yourself off to the really neat things in golf simply because you DON'T want to see them. It's just like the little medicore Billy Bell Sr. course I was telling you about that day at Rustic Canyon, that lost its "look" years ago. I could take you out there and you wouldn't "get" any of the stuff that was going on there because it is just way too short of a course of your style of play, and foremost, you would think it was a waste of your time. It's the architectural stuff that you don't care about, that is still there, you just have to look into it.

But I have to ask, if it was 15 years ago, would we be having this discussion? I don't think so.

I also find it interesting how so much has changed about the Bridge since your original evaluation, where you claimed it being one of the best on Long Island. Unfortunately we can't pul that up anymore, because I think you, yourself would even be amazed at your comments then and now.

Matt, BTW, Round Trip from JFK $99.00 each way on Jet Blue. Even a poor man can afford it!

[Steve Lapper]

Matty My Boy,

  As you know, I really do agree with you about the driver premium at The Bridge. I did play it with very fast greens (last Friday) and still think that, unless short-sided, recovery opportunities are plentiful and available...something that isn't nearly as possible at those "other" "charming" (lesser) places that you degrade as old and from yesteryear. Yes, the high fescue swallows shots and spits out ballooning scores, but that isn't very unique to The Bridge. Yes, the elevation changes are frequent and bi-directional. Up/Down/Up/Down...give me a good porn movie   ;)for a fraction of the price! Simply said, the old tracks might well have their p-e-d-e-s-t-r-i-a-n holes, but they don't number any more than the mediocre ones at Da Bridge. Thus they win on historical basis as anything new should recognize the obligation to avoid it.
Hurry up and get some new Huggies on so you don't wet yourself with this drool  :-[for something that clearly falls behind the last job Rees did on some ground in Bridgehampton.

   Who has amnesia?? I've NEVER claimed Hamilton Farm was anything but better than Due Process and Ballyowen. Your NJ top ten is already skewed enough without my wacky take. Yes, I most certainly made the argument that Somerset Hills rises above Baltusrol Lower (personal taste my friend), but I've never wasted a single line of GCA space extolling HFGC, other than perhaps to sing the praises of our par 3 Hickory Course(it is the best of its kind in the States).


PS...I've not defended Shoreacres either, although I have played it many times and do like it, but not enough to defend it ad nauseum.
   
   

[Matt_Ward]

Tommy:

Hate to say this -- but the Emperor doesn't wear any clothers. Sorry to bust your bubble. If you think I don't have class that's one thing but Tommy I don't jump on the classic course bandwagon because everyone else thinks so.

Tommy -- when you mention my original post on The Bridge I'm entitled to keep an open mind and reassess things as I have. What wrong with an open mind? Oh -- I forgot -- it's that darn "look" that takes precedence. Who cares about playing the game and hitting quality golf shots -- it's that dreaded "look" that must rule the mind of the Emperor and his faithful minions. I still stand on my what I originally said that The Bridge is among my personal top five on the Island (behind SH, BB, NGLA, GCGC) -- and as I stated previously I cannot comment on Friar's Head because I have not played it thus far. By the way Tommy -- have you ever played The Bridge?

Let me also mention what does the fact that Maidstone have class people -- a class clubhouse -- have to do with the golf course? Have you forgotten the pedestrian holes on the course -- are you saying that the t-o-t-a-l experience at Maidstone is sooooooooooo bulletproof? Tommy -- I conceded the fact about the dunes holes but is Maidstone really in fact among the 40 best courses in the USA -- please hold on while I wipe away the tears from my face.

I'm not saying that Maidstone isn't a wonderful course -- for it's time. But it's not the architectural wonder -- or anywhere close to -- the sheer qualities you see with SH and NGLA. It benefits from being "in the neighborhood" and in maxing out the qualities of about six holes.

Tommy -- I don't close myself off to the really neat things in golf. My listing of personal top 50 courses was posted -- by me I might add -- and it contained a wide assortment of classic and modern courses that are played from a 21st century experience. Last I checked -- I didn't see your listing. For what it's worth I have also criss-crossed this country no less than half a dozen times per year for the last 25 years or so playing a much wider cross section of golf courses than a good deal of the people who comment here on GCA. I'm not saying that means jack to anyone but puhleeeeeeeeeze give me a bit more credit for recognizing quality golf even if I happen to be a Juuuurseeeee guy!

I appreciate subtle courses that don't OD on the length or difficulty meter. But I need to see beef for that to happen. Tommy -- you are an architectural guy who likes "the look" and if the playing of a wide variety of top notch golf shots is part of the mix so be it. If it isn't -- forget about it -- it's the "look" that counts the most. I don't doubt for a second that the "look" is a big part of the picture -- but how a course plays is the first among equals in my book.

By the way Emperor -- next time you order food at your favorite places -- ask them about the "look" / presentation because who cares how the food tastes (plays). It's the "look" that rules the day.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

No Matt, I avoided it and all other Rees Jones courses for my first trip on the Island. Why on earth would I want to eat at Jack In The Box when I can be eating at the very same table that C.B. Mac, Seth Raynor, Henry Whigham, Willie Park Jr. and Bill Coore have eaten at?

Thats right Matt, Go ahead and keep believeing that is all I'm in it for--the look with little substance. I also know a thing or too about food too in case you didn't know, and I know where all the fine restaurants are as well, as I'm always willing to experiment! But if you think Cream Chipped Beef on toast as far as golf courses goes is good, (Shit On A Shingle) have at it! (I'm not singling (or is it "shingling?") out the Bridge here either)

I'll stick with Friars Head and the others anytime! But you haven't played that one either have you?

[Mike Worth]

To Matt Ward.

You are amazing.  In a thread devoted to golf courses on Long Island, you manage to bash Hidden Creek - again.  A good analogy here is that you just crossed 5 lanes of traffic to run over a squirrel.

What is your obsession with Hidden Creek?  You still seem vexed by their rating in Golf Magazine?  Are you THAT upset your assessment in NJ Golfer was widely off the mark?

In your case, who needs Viagara, your perpetual "Hidden Creek" hard-on will keep you going for days and weeks (my apologies to the women who read this forum)

[TEPaul]

"I'm not saying that Maidstone isn't a wonderful course -- for it's time. But it's not the architectural wonder -- or anywhere close to -- the sheer qualities you see with SH and NGLA. It benefits from being "in the neighborhood" and in maxing out the qualities of about six holes."

Matt:

All this stuff with architecture really is subjective, but I've read your opinions on the subject long enough to believe that you're the type of architectural analyst who recognized the "meat" when you see it but what you'll probably never understand is the "taste". You're impression of Maidstone is completely indicative of that! I'd love to see you play the place in the not uncommon weather which is part and parcel of the golf course and its unusally variable playability and see what you think of it then. You're impression and analysis would likely be--"Well it was just the weather!"

Right!?!

[T.J. Sturges]

Matt,

Yes, I have seen your list of your personal Top 50.  All I can say is that I respect you for going out on that (those) limbs and "putting it out there" for all to see.

I have a different philosophy for evaluating courses.  How can one say whether Pine Valley is better than Shinnecock?  How can one say whether he or she would rather spend a beautiful afternoon at Royal Doornoch or at Fishers Island?  I just can't do it.  For that reason, I decided about 5 years ago (much to Ran's dismay) that I would no longer attempt to rank golf courses in some insane order (to me...it's like trying to say which of your children you love more...which is ridiculous).  So...rather than ranking my "Top 50", I simply use the Doak scale and list the courses I've played that are 10's, followed by the 9's, followed by the 8's etc.  There would be too many to list, but if you want me to list some of the 8,9's and 10's I'd be happy to.  But...I refuse to put them in order because I don't see the merit in doing so (indeed, I am the only person I know who has been approached by one of the magazine panels to be a panelist, and I turned them down...How much free golf did I pass up?!).

TS

[TEPaul]

"I am the only person I know who has been approached by one of the magazine panels to be a panelist, and I turned them down...How much free golf did I pass up?!)."

T.J.S.

Nope you're not the only one you know. I actually became a rating panelist, got all my rating material or whatever all that stuff they sent me is, never rated a single course and resigned. When one of my golf architect pals laughed his ass off at me when he found out I'd become a rater helped me immensely with the resignation decision too!

[T.J. Sturges]

Bravo TePaul!  I knew I liked you!  Perhaps we can form some sort of special society of "enlightened golf architecture nerds"...  Surely Tommy will join our band...unless he is a panelist!?!?

TS

[George Pazin]

Matt -

You do realize that a 410 yard par 4 is not a pedestrian driver-lob wedge to 99% of all golfers, don't you?

[Matt_Ward]

Tommy:

Can't deny the fact that you know Rees Jones courses because of your take on Sandpines which I admit is a flawed course. Oh, I forgot you based your opinions on SantaLuz on what good buddy. The course was better than you mentioned but I forgot that anything with the name Rees Jones is like saying you have the Black Death from the middle ages.

S1:

I don't have anything against any course and if you cared to read the review -- provide an address and I'll mail you one -- on what I wrote for Hidden Creek. But I'll say this again in case you missed -- it's not #72 in the USA IMHO. If you think differently that's fine -- all members should of their clubs no less than parents are of their children.

Slapper:

Review the Jersey list and tell me what's in error and have a little bravado and post your list -- Oh  -- yes, please list Somerset Hills ahead of Baltusrol and a host of other courses in the Garden State.

[Mike Worth]

Matt Ward.

We all know your opinion about Hidden Creek, but, not suprisingly, you missed my point.  How does a criticism of Hidden Creek find its way into a thread on L.I. golf courses?  Only an obssessed person, with Freudian "issues", would feel obliged to mention this opinion as often as you do.

No need for you to mail me the review.  I've already read it -- I doubt it will improve with a 2nd reading.  I realize that readership of NJ Golfer Magazine may not be the most robust, but there is really no need to hype the publication by offering free copies of it - really!

A Graduate level Economics Professor once taught me that things which are free tend to be over used.  I guess your review of Hidden Creek is proof that there are exceptions to all rules of economics, as it appears you can't even give it away  

Finally, I'll leave you with a baseball metaphor:

Matt Ward - "Hidden Creek is a solid double"
SS1 - "Matt Ward's review of Hidden Creek - fouled into the catcher's mitt for strike THREE."

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Matt,

Your trying to stretch the truth as it behooves you.

If you remember, my post that YOU and Pat thought was incouragable regarding the Rees Pieces Bunkers was made not as a critique, but to inform people who say he is changing his style--that he actually isn't, nor ever intends too.

Just like when you supposedly called The Bridge the Third Best in Long Island--and in fact didn't, but did say something to the affect that you felt it would be one of the GREAT ones on Long Island, so too are you assuming that I did the same on my Rees Pieces Alive And Well In Ranch Sante Fe. (Which I did under an assumed name in regards to the old bunker studies we had been doing sometime back)(and of which you never particpated in.)

If you remember, after you announced to the world that you were going to go to Santa Luz and see for yourself, you emailed me before you came out here and asked me about Santa Luz. I told you to go see for yourself and then we can talk about it--which you did, and then we did talk about it at Rustic Canyon #4 tee--where the conversation was initated, where I said to you whilst standing on the tee, "Matt, despite what you and Pat may think I didn't mind the course all that much, in fact I liked it, despite the nauseating typical RJ bunkering, the long distances between some of the holes, more specifically the 8th & 9th, and the fact that many of the holes on the course are situated around the housing development. Tht their were indeed a lot of fun shots to be had out there."  AND YOU AGREED WITH ME.  (I have two guys that might be able to remember to back me up on this also!) You might also remember that I told you before you went there to look at the bunker off  the right fairway at #1, as well as how #2 was a pretty good hole, which you concured and said they didn't need that bunker front left of the green, as well as how I told you that #3 was the best Rees Jones designed hole I had played to date despite the typical Rees Pieces mounds going into the right fairway bunker. Also, you might remember that all of us laughed about my trevails when I described myself trying to get out of that set of bunkers!

So Matt, your going to have to do a lot better then try to pull the wool over everbody's eyes with this BIAS crap or whatever you want to call it. I also want to ask, how do you know what I gave Santa Luz on my Golfweek scorecard?  You might be a little surprized if you did know, but I'm not going to let you know because it would then let some Rees Jones Associate who is lurking know that I thought one of his courses was pretty good. Not anywhere great, but pretty good despite all of their inabilties to properly blend a course with nature when they destory a hillside while doing it, and expecting tall fescue grasses to cover it up; combine it as well as the incessant use of containment mounds (not just the Rees Pieces Variety) throughout the course.

I will tell you this though, I think Maidstone is a much better course then Santa Luz. that I'm willing to lay money on. Maybe not for you, but for me--undoubtedly yes!  And  judging what I have seen of  images of Hidden Creek, as well as descriptions of many respected people, it would too!

[XXX1]

Mr. SS1

Who the hell are you?  

Why is your identity like mine obviously hidden?  

Do you have a financial interest in Hidden Creek that causes you to be intolerent of other opinions?

Is it not good enough for someone to think Hidden Creek is a solid course but not one of the Top 100 out of tens of thousands of courses?

Is Ran's word the only one to be followed because it suits your interests?

Who are you?

Who are you?

Who are you?

[George Pazin]

Mr. SS1

Who the hell are you?  

Why is your identity like mine obviously hidden?  

Do you have a financial interest in Hidden Creek that causes you to be intolerent of other opinions?

Is it not good enough for someone to think Hidden Creek is a solid course but not one of the Top 100 out of tens of thousands of courses?

Is Ran's word the only one to be followed because it suits your interests?

Who are you?

Who are you?

Who are you?

If Ran tolerates anonymous posters, who the heck are you to demand someone's identity, particularly with a rude anonymous post?

SS1 has provided much thoughtful content with regard to Hidden Creek. His disagreements with Matt have resulted in a lot of interesting discussion.

[Mike Worth]

Mr. XXX1.

As I see that you are new on this forum, let me compliment you on the quality and content of your maiden post on GCA (NOT).    

I am anonymous for only 1 reason -- a close friend of mine is in the Golf Course business (his name is mentioned often on GCA).  I don't want to have the appearance that any of my acerbic comments are attributable to him (either on his behalf, or if anything I say embarasses).   This friend knows I'm my own person with my own opinions, but I wouldn't want others on here to read (or misread) anything I write as acting on his behalf or against others.  I'm of the opinion that many of the posters, contributors, and lurkers of this site also earn their living from Golf - I would never want to help or hurt my friend just because of a post I made.

I should also mention that I have NO FINANCIAL INTEREST in Hidden Creek.  I'm a dues paying member, that's it!

Finally, opinions will differ from person to person.  What I object to is Matt Ward's absurd assertion that he has an open mind - just because he says so.   Even a casual analysis of Matt's posts show him to be very opinionated (which is fine), but not open minded.  

[XXX1]

Mr SS1

Who are you to know if Mat or anyone but yourself is open minded?  That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. I believe you need to read the bias discussion. It certainly appears that any wavering from the party line that Hidden Creek is one of the great golf courses in the country means you are closed minded.

Answer the questions

Is it not good enough for someone to think Hidden Creek is a solid course but not one of the Top 100 out of tens of thousands of courses?

Is Ran's word the only one to be followed because it suits your interests?

Is this an open forum where different opinions can be addressed without being branded as closed minded?

[Mike Worth]

Mr. XXX1

OK, you caught me, you're right, I don't know if Matt is open minded or not <yawn>.  It's my opinion.  I take it you don't agree?

To answer your other questions, here goes ---

1.  Yes

2.  No

3.  Yes.

Lets see, I answered 2 of your questions on the last thread, and the 4 or so questions from this thread.  That makes 6 questions, you only get 14 more questions --- which makes 20 questions.  

Do you wish to continue with your line of questioning, counsellor?

[XXX1]

At least you're honest enough to admit that its just not good enough to think Hidden Creek is a solid course and not a Top 100 in the US. Who isn't open minded now?