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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wow!
« on: August 11, 2014, 04:45:19 PM »
PGA know not how to run an event

US Open was boring but course was great so we watched

PGA was best leaderboard and finish in years but on a soggy goat track so we took a nap

Bunkers at Valhalla are garbage, too easy, ball rolls back to center (This critique made after it rains 4 of last 5 days at the venue and mid round of final round)

Rory was rude to Phil and Rickie

Rory is surely to blow his knee out or have back problems

Holes that force long approaches are crap (even though we beg for less bomb and gouge)

Push carts are the devil's crutch

Old fart green committees punish whipper snappers and their push carts

Golf should be played at my pace by experienced players only




Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... refreshing Monday on Golf Club Atlas

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 04:47:26 PM »
Don't forget:

People starting threads to complain about people complaining.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 04:48:23 PM »
Don't forget:

People starting threads to complain about people complaining.

I would submit that mine is not truly a complaint.

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 04:52:12 PM »
Don't forget:

People starting threads to complain about people complaining.

I would submit that mine is not truly a complaint.

 :)

Well in that case I should amend it to:

People making posts complaining about people who they wrongly think are starting threads to complain about people complaining.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 06:32:44 PM »
Kind of what I thought today.  My take on the PGA finish was more like complaining about pro golfers actually speeding up play (to finish).  I also liked Mike Young's take that we've run out of things to rant about.  There will always be more courses and pictures, why we all came here in the first place.   

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 06:44:17 PM »
Enjoyed the tournament.Weather took short hitters out . They could lose the "This is major slogan". Better than the old one but why does a major need a slogan?

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 09:00:10 PM »
why does a major need a slogan?

Because it was the PGA, the hardest major to sell...

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 01:33:51 AM »
Eunice: "Is that PGA thing they are playing over by Joe's farm a major or just a regular tour event?"
Fred : "It must be a major. Check out the slogan"

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 09:43:55 AM »
Greg,
The last couple days just shows how out of touch GCA is compared with the rest of golf.  Your post is just highlighting a lot of those points.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 09:49:44 AM »
Greg,
The last couple days just shows how out of touch GCA is compared with the rest of golf.  Your post is just highlighting a lot of those points.

Couldn't say it better.  The PGA was the best major of the year, hands down.  The TV ratings seem to back that up.  I certainly didn't tune out.

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2014, 10:01:43 AM »
Greg,
The last couple days just shows how out of touch GCA is compared with the rest of golf.  Your post is just highlighting a lot of those points.

Of course many GCA participants think differently then most of the "rest" of golf. Why is that a bad thing?
Anymore there seems to be this movement here that preaches, "the majority think this, thus you are stupid if you don't"
You know what, I'd like to see those that feel this way to go start another web site. Call it "all is good as long as conventional wisdom reigns"....or come up with a shorter, more clever name ;D

And I'll stay here, be in the minority, and dream a little bit.
This site doesn't need to be constantly reminded that it is out of touch with the mainstream. That is exactly why this site exists.
You want to go mainstream, there are plenty of places to hang out other than here.

You want to say whatever rates highest on TV is best? Go for it. Go watch survivor all night. Me, I'm more interested in hearing from those who think differently, those who are a little anti-establishment, those who don't just follow the money and believe that majority thinking way is the only way.

One thing I know about the golf business is the longer you are in it the more it tries to educate the creativity out of you. I'm going to resist that for as long as I can and I have no problem being in the minority.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2014, 10:13:19 AM »
Don,

There is nothing wrong with thinking differently, and that's why I am here.  Different is interesting and unusual, especially when it comes to golf course design.

However, the problem lies in the fact that a lot of people on here believe their opinion is the only version that's correct.  Different is not bad, but forcing different for the sake of being different is.  Just saying you don't like something that everyone else likes just for the sake of being different is not a great way of 1) understanding where the other side comes from 2) making significant change (of which this site can be capable).

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 10:21:34 AM »
Who is being forced to think differently?


Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2014, 10:28:08 AM »
No one.  And that's not what I said.

It just seems like a lot of people on here like being different only for the sake of being different.

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2014, 10:31:54 AM »
No one.  And that's not what I said.

It just seems like a lot of people on here like being different only for the sake of being different.


Kind of sad that you see it that way.

The alternative would be to try to figure out where folks are coming from (admittedly some folks are better at conveying this than others).
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2014, 10:38:30 AM »
No one.  And that's not what I said.

It just seems like a lot of people on here like being different only for the sake of being different.


Kind of sad that you see it that way.

The alternative would be to try to figure out where folks are coming from (admittedly some folks are better at conveying this than others).

And perhaps that's the actual issue.  More people would benefit from reading more and thinking through their response rather than furiously typing a rebuttal to a post that doesn't match up to their opinion.

Andy Troeger

Re: Wow!
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2014, 10:44:42 AM »
Part of the issue with this type of format is that in order to get responses, it is important to type something bold, controversial, or even outrageous. Typing something well-reasoned and thoughtful (but not controversial) is a good way to get to page two quickly.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2014, 10:57:19 AM »
We all think differently from the mainstream on a lot of fronts. That's also why I'm here. I do believe, however, that it's important to evaluate our own assumptions, and back them up with more than just an initial hypothesis. Plenty of GCAers had their pitchforks and torches ready for Valhalla a few weeks ago and have kept them in hand all the way through the tournament. Conventional wisdom on this site says that it's a crappy, penal, modern course with little architectural interest. That all may be true, but very few have offered specific examples to back up their assumptions.  Don, I'll give you credit here. I may disagree with your premise that the bunkers at Valhalla are not architecturally sound, but at least you offered a real criticism with examples directly from the course. Your thread was a refreshing one with a specific focus and has encouraged some good debate. There are far more threads and posts that simply draw on old GCA cliches:

* Nicklaus=bad, penal, architecture with no strategy
* Green=bad, overwatered
* Valhalla = bad because it's Nicklaus and green and not minimalist and therefore can't be strategic or interesting to play

If we can back up our positions with specific examples, observations, and facts, then the credibility of the ideals espoused on this site will grow. If we just make a bunch of repetitive noise, we ruin that credibility. This site has a tremendous audience that goes well beyond the 1500 or so who post here. It shouldn't be that hard for us to have discussion that makes us sound smarter and more observant than the guys on GolfWRX.

On that note, the part that most concerns me is that the Discussion Group appears to be turning into a McIlroy fan page. How many threads fawning over Rory have started in the last few days? One of them was started just to post a photo of him. It seems innocuous at first - just pictures of him sitting in a courtesy car and wearing what appears to be a Rally's uniform, posing with a teenage girl. Pretty soon it'll be threads showcasing shirtless photos of him with hearts drawn all around his torso. I was around on Twitter for the Belieber era, and this is starting to feel reminiscent. At least with Justin you could choose to ignore the related hashtags though, and Twitter is really designed for that sort of thing. This is supposed to be a much more focused Discussion Group.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2014, 11:08:43 AM »
Concerning the idea of thinking different and being different:

First, how would anyone know anothers' motive for thinking or being different? Inferring that one is being different for the sake of being different is merely jumping to a conclusion without discourse.

Second, I know a few of the people on the side of different; they usually think and do based on experiences that have led them to be passionately and genuinely in pursuit of making things better through concepts and ideas that don't fall into mainstream or conventional wisdom. What stonewalls many different thinking people is, eventually, they recognize that a) the audience is small and b) there isn't much to be gained, apart from self-satisfaction.

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wow!
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2014, 11:25:14 AM »
PGA know not how to run an event

US Open was boring but course was great so we watched

PGA was best leaderboard and finish in years but on a soggy goat track so we took a nap

Bunkers at Valhalla are garbage, too easy, ball rolls back to center (This critique made after it rains 4 of last 5 days at the venue and mid round of final round)

Rory was rude to Phil and Rickie

Rory is surely to blow his knee out or have back problems

Holes that force long approaches are crap (even though we beg for less bomb and gouge)

Push carts are the devil's crutch

Old fart green committees punish whipper snappers and their push carts

Golf should be played at my pace by experienced players only




Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... refreshing Monday on Golf Club Atlas



And all this from "lovers" of the game who act as ambassadors to the general public.
Now why is the game declining?

Ivan Lipko

Re: Wow!
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2014, 12:23:52 PM »
It's not a bad site and forum after all. Lots of knowledgeable folks.

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