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Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
The 6th at Valhalla is no great hole, but I really do wonder what we would say if one of GCA's favorite architects had built it (assuming they would have built a hole that played exactly the same but with more naturalistic shaping). The tee shot really gives an advantage to a player who hugs the Fork off the tee, as doing so can be the difference between a 5 iron and a 3 wood approach. The Fork also functions a bit like a Hell's Half Acre hazard in the sense that it's easily cleared after a good tee shot, but adds some stakes to the second shot if your drive goes offline. It works as a governor for strong players so they can't just turn another 500 yard par 4 into a driver-8 iron while a weak player from the correct set of tees can still hit a full drive and set up a fairly simple layup, or swing for the fences on their approach if they successfully challenge the hazard edge.

Like most of Valhalla, the shaping is pure '80s and completely incongruous with what is really an outstanding setting. It takes a phenomenal piece of land and makes it borderline ugly. That being said, I really like the way the hole plays and I must say that I enjoy seeing pros hitting approaches to a par 4 with 3 woods. My verdict: breath of fresh air.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 09:32:03 AM »
Definitely agree with what you've written.  It's total GCA hypocrisy to ask the pros to be challenged with long approaches and then complain when they're challenged with long approaches just because it's one dimensional. 


Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 09:50:20 AM »
6th Hole Valhalla ... suggestion, move the tee up and to the left of its location , so that there is a strategic tee shot decision consisting of how much a diagonal carry of Floyd's Creek to take.  Re-work green complex to reward the aggressive long carry with the easiier angle of approach.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 10:06:44 AM »
Carl, why do you think the strategic decision of how much of the creek to carry would be a superior challenge to the current strategic decision of how close to the creek one is willing to venture to set up the shorter approach?

I can see the merits of such a reworking of the hole, but it does seem like it would only widen the gap between the "haves" who can clear the water and the "have nots" who can't. The current configuration at least screws everyone equally.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Tom Allen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 11:50:30 AM »
I like the hole, because it does force long(er) second shots.  Sure, it can be improved in some ways, but as you note, it eliminates bomb and gouge.  I compare it in that way to the 8th at Pebble, which I think is a great hole.

Dale_McCallon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 12:09:38 PM »
Glad someone brought this up because it had been on my mind ever since I saw Brad Klein talk about how bad it was and then Louisville legend John Mayhugh back it up.

We bemoan the fact that pros hit driver-wedge on every hole, but then on a hole that made them hit a long iron/fairway wood it's an awful hole.  I actually liked watching them hit into the green; even though I thought yesterdays position was dull.  I think had it been on the opposite side players might could have gotten at it.

Is it any different than a non-reachable par five where everyone basically has to lay up and hit 80-100 yd shots like the 17th at Balturol?

I definitely preferred it over the 13th.  What yardage is it for members??

Mike H

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 12:13:47 PM »
As someone who plays this course quite often and is a decent player I happen to like this hole.  When I first started playing this hole I tried to hit a hybrid or 3 wood just past the large tree on the right.  My thinking was I just wanted to get a ball in play and distance did not matter on my approach shot.  I soon realized that if I started to challenge the end of the fairway with driver that it would give me a lot less club in my hands.  I think this is a great hole for the best players in the world and it does give the best player an option of the tee.  Lay back and have 240 in or be aggressive and have 200 to the middle. 

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2014, 12:16:23 PM »
Carl, why do you think the strategic decision of how much of the creek to carry would be a superior challenge to the current strategic decision of how close to the creek one is willing to venture to set up the shorter approach?

I can see the merits of such a reworking of the hole, but it does seem like it would only widen the gap between the "haves" who can clear the water and the "have nots" who can't. The current configuration at least screws everyone equally.
was trying introduce some of the "Cape" element into the hole
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2014, 03:13:10 PM »
The 6th reminds me of the 18th at Whistling Straits.  Same idea, force the pros to lay up and come into the green with a long iron or hybrid.  In the later case however, it is on the finishing hole.  Everyone here hates the 18th on the Straits course, but it produces drama in a major.

Mike H

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Breath of fresh air, or the worst hole in major championship golf?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2014, 04:05:15 PM »
Typically the balls will not roll back towards the middle of the bunkers at Valhalla.  They maintain them similar to the bunkers at Royal Melbourne where the lower areas of the bunkers are raked while the outside of the bunkers are smoothed out or not as kept.  What we saw this weekend was a result of the rain.

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