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Patrick_Mucci

Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2014, 10:13:18 AM »
Scott,

Wind can make any hole more challenging.

The 1st fairway is pretty wide making your drive and second less demanding.
Hitting a wedge for your third should require some degree of accuracy.

There are thousands of greens where putting is difficult if you're not in the right location on the green .

I don't see the hole as a demanding or difficult challenge, rather as a  nice opening hole

David Whitmer

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2014, 10:22:49 AM »
Skokie CC, first three holes.

Staying in Chicago...Chicago GC, first three holes.

Muirfield, first three holes (though you could choose any three-hole stretch).

Pinehurst #2, first three holes (also a course you could choose any three-hole stretch...the greens make every hole challenging).

Scott McWethy

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2014, 12:48:28 PM »
Scott,

Wind can make any hole more challenging.

The 1st fairway is pretty wide making your drive and second less demanding.
Hitting a wedge for your third should require some degree of accuracy.

There are thousands of greens where putting is difficult if you're not in the right location on the green .

I don't see the hole as a demanding or difficult challenge, rather as a  nice opening hole

Yes, the first fairway is quite wide, just like the entire course.  However, your ball can end up on some pretty sever slopes so that presents challenges.  I've been fortunate enough to have played about 30 to 40 rounds out there and rarely do you get a level lie off of that drive.  It makes for a harder second shot to get it in a position where your angle is good going into that green.  The wind is another factor that can help or hurt you in the placement of your second shot.

As far as the wedge into the green, being your first hole of the day and having to hit it to such an elevation is not the easiest thing to do.  Because of the incline, it's hard to judge the distance and a lot of players come up short, which is dead.  If you take more club and hit it deeper into the green, now the fun begins if the pin is middle or up front.  If the pin is back, then not much of a problem as it's an easy uphill putt.

It's a great opening hole that gives you plenty of space to hit, but you'll have uneven lies and a tricky third shot.  I think that is a challenging but fair hole.  
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 01:00:04 PM by Scott McWethy »

John Sabino

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2014, 12:53:08 PM »
1. I agree with Scott that Merion is challenging, but fair for the reasons he references.

2. I think Shinnecock's first is challenging, but fair. Looks simple, but judging the wind and holding the ball on the green is pretty tough, and then getting the speed right on the first hole is very hard.

3. Aronimink is challenging but fair. I have found it quite difficult to judge the uphill distance correctly; it always seems to play far more uphill than the yardage indicates.

I completely disagree that Oakmont is fair. The green is extremely hard to hit and hold, especially given its slope and the speed at which they run. O.B. down the entire right side is also not particularly "fair" on a difficult opening hole. Oh, and your shot to the green could be blind if you aren't over the rise in the hill.
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Jeff Spittel

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2014, 01:01:13 PM »

Prairie Dunes
Streamsong Red
The Country Club

Jeff,

Do you really think that the second holes on the Red and TCC are challenging ?

A short par 5 and a short par 4 ?

Pat,

I thought we were talking about the first holes only. I will say, however, that the green on #2 at TCC is no picnic even with a sand wedge in your hand.
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Mike Wagner

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2014, 01:52:48 PM »
SkyRidge
CPC
Prairie Dunes

Mark McKeever

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2014, 01:59:04 PM »
My 3 nominations:


Pine Valley
Charles River
Bethpage Red
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Doug Wright

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2014, 04:57:25 PM »
Prairie Dunes
Pine Valley
Broadmoor (East)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 06:40:12 PM by Doug Wright »
Twitter: @Deneuchre

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2014, 05:41:19 PM »

Prairie Dunes
Streamsong Red
The Country Club

Jeff,

Do you really think that the second holes on the Red and TCC are challenging ?

A short par 5 and a short par 4 ?

Pat,

I thought we were talking about the first holes only. I will say, however, that the green on #2 at TCC is no picnic even with a sand wedge in your hand.

Jeff,

Might I suggest that you REREAD the title of this thread ?

The THREE most challenging, but eminently fair, OPENING holes.

That's holes # 1, # 2 and # 3

Doesn't Ran administer the IQ test anymore ? ;D


JESII

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2014, 06:01:24 PM »
What does "eminently fair" even mean in the context of a golf hole?

As for challenging; Pine Valley takes the cake for me. I was once with a guy who hit the green in regulation, about 15 feet onto the green in the right center. Hole was about 2/3 deep and as close to the right side as you can really get. Planed to play about 5 feet of left to right break on this 50 foot putt but pushed it a little, starting it a foot or two left of the hole. As the ball got close to the hole it was only slightly low then it started trickling right, eventually ending up in the pine trees 15 feet below and 15 yards right of the green. 4 or 5 swats later and he two putted for something ridiculous...

Great hole, and the most difficult opener I can think of.

Not sure what fair or unfair would mean though...

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2014, 06:10:35 PM »

What does "eminently fair" even mean in the context of a golf hole?

If you read a previous response from me you'd know the answer.

Sleep deprivation doesn't become you ;D


As for challenging; Pine Valley takes the cake for me. I was once with a guy who hit the green in regulation, about 15 feet onto the green in the right center. Hole was about 2/3 deep and as close to the right side as you can really get. Planed to play about 5 feet of left to right break on this 50 foot putt but pushed it a little, starting it a foot or two left of the hole. As the ball got close to the hole it was only slightly low then it started trickling right, eventually ending up in the pine trees 15 feet below and 15 yards right of the green. 4 or 5 swats later and he two putted for something ridiculous...

Great hole, and the most difficult opener I can think of.

Not sure what fair or unfair would mean though...

See my previous explanation/definition


Michael Felton

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2014, 06:48:09 PM »
For holes 1, 2 and 3 on one course, I definitely think Winged Foot West is the toughest I can think of. I also think that they are all "fair".

Chris DeToro

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Re: What are the three most challenging, but eminently fair, opening holes
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2014, 08:30:51 PM »
The opening stretch at Wannamoisett.  1 is a tough opener, open off the tee and a mid iron approach.  2 is a very long, exacting par 4 and 3 may be one of my favorite par 3s a short iron but with no room for error

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