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Ran Morrissett

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Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« on: August 05, 2014, 05:26:05 PM »
... under Courses by Country and Architecture Timeline.

This Whippoorwill profile was five years in the making, from first playing it to getting a suitable complement of photographs a few weeks ago. The inconsiderate Sandy throttled me in 2012 but often things happen for a reason and the course reflected in the photos is materially better than what would have been portrayed earlier. Also, the extended process enabled me time to discuss this course in detail with the late, great George Bahto. Always ebullient, he became even more animated when discussing Whippoorwill, such was his passion for Banks’ work there. An avowed sucker for Macdonald/Raynor/Banks works, I sneak this one into their top 5 combined portfolio along with Yale, Fishers, NGLA, and Yeamans Hall. That statement might shock  :o some given the plethora of other high profile designs from which to pick but I give the edge to Whippoorwill and its New England like landscape.

The mix of drama with strategy is highly authentic and the varied manner in which Banks attacked the rugged topography is sterling: around the depression at the first, steeply downhill on 2, uphill at 3, up and over at the reachable 5 par 6th, past massive slabs of granite on the seventh, and so forth. In flavor and boldness, Whippoorwill might remind some of The Addington. At both places, you get the overwhelming impression that their architects would think the golfers of today are wimps, whining about the hazardous hazards. Situated on a hill, Whippoorwill is a tough walk like The Addington but so many views/shots unfold that I like the trade-off. Yard after yard, this 6,640 yard course is both action-packed and scenic. Who doesn’t enjoy weaving heroically through large playing corridors, past foreboding hazards in an effort to position your ball properly on greens that feature both tilt and contour?! Few do it better than long time pro Jim Wahl and ace Met golfer Brian Krex, whom I have had the pleasure to watch playing here. The design doesn’t favor one shot shape and Jim agrees that the golfer is asked to every possible shot in the bag over the course of one’s round.

While getting ‘street cred’ in Westchester County is brutal, this course has the chops to carve out its own distinctive reputation and following. The handful of GCA’ers I know who have played it – Joe Andriole, Neil Regan, Geoff Childs, Noel Freeman , my brother Bill – all swear by it. The folks at the helm have it moving in the right direction and the results are spectacular. Like the course, the alterations are large-scale, a lot more than pushing out a green edge four feet and waiting for polite applause. For instance, if The Whip successfully clears the forest behind the 6th green this winter, the golfer will be greeted with a majestic quarter mile view from the peak of the 6th fairway, across a lake on 7, to that fairway some 150 feet below!

Epic stuff fashioned by the hands of the highly underrated Charles Banks. See if you don’t agree. I only wish George was still here – working with him on this course profile would have been a blast! I am jealous of the time Gib spent with George at The Whip some years ago and I can’t wait for him to share memories from that day in this thread.  

Best,


PS I reference St. Enodoc in this profile so the timing of Sean’s superb course tour of Braid’s Cornish masterpiece (also presently a sticky topic) is serendipitous!

Tom Bacsanyi

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 06:05:39 PM »
Thanks Ran.  Absolutely stunning.  So Banks was sort of 3rd in line behind CB and SR (a newbie question I'm sure)?  I like how his stuff sort of takes CB/SR and "melts" it a little. 
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Mike Sweeney

Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 08:32:20 PM »
I am 3 holes into this review, and I strongly suggest the members of MPCC look at this review before they hire Tom Fazio. I have not been to Whippoorwill in a few years, but it is the opposite of every tree lined Westchester course that gets promoted here. It was a weird mixture of trees (now gone), quarry, and prairie golf that is really unique to NYC area.

Ok, back to the 4th hole....


Ran,

Nicely done and great summary:

The greatest courses in the world – as defined by their ability to stir a strong visceral reaction – feature ‘one of a kind holes’ where a master architect exploited unique landforms. Examples include Eastward Ho!, Royal Hague, Fishers Island and Yale. Whippoorwill belongs in this category, it’s that good, that memorable – and that much fun.


Different course and state, but Tom Fazio need not apply!




PS: I have one on The Black Hand!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 08:55:01 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Noel Freeman

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 09:32:03 PM »
For the record I recall a series of calls oh about 15 years ago where Ran implored me to go see Westhampton, that it had to be on my Raynor palette etc.. All I recall of that day when I finally saw Westhampton which Ran led me to believe was the 2nd coming of NGLA was that Dr. Geoff Childs while trying to recover an errant golf ball hopped a fence and fell thru a pool cover into the water on a neighboring house's property. He was soaked to the gills and with 50 degree air temperatures froze the rest of the round and was a mildly unpleasant (or is that normal?) person on the drive home.  While I thought Westhampton was a nice course and a fun play it did not engender in my spirit a tacit want to return and I chastised Ran for his shameless Raynor love.  

Now fast forward to 2010, the summer of Tuco (albatross, hole in one in successive rounds) when the golfing gods shined on that outlaw--the one with the element of irreducible rascality.  Tuco and Dr. Childs were kindly invited to play Whipoorwill (The Whip) and frankly were blown away as one can see in the profile.  A call to Ran was then promulgated and that lazy southern drawl seemed pleased to be hearing something effervescent out of Geoffrey's mouth-- Tuco of course is already an excitable sort.  So, finally one late summer day with overcast skies and overbearing humidity Ran and I squared off in a match at the Whip.  On the 2nd, Tuco harnessing his inner Ted Ray almost drove the green with a titanic ballantine blast (google Mel Allen) much to Golf's most beloved impotent dismay. At the delightful short, a 9 iron to 3 feet almost closed the Pinehurst Pinnacle out with gamesmanship at a peak as a hushed "Noonan" was heard out of the side of Ran's mouth.  Yet he hung tough as my relentless form and long driving humbled even Ran as despite giving a few shots he was closed out 4&3 with my mouthwatering 77.  The Whip will always be a Tuco favorite and I'm glad Ran actually listened to me once to finally get this review done.  

As a nice afterthought, after Ran took these pictures a few weeks ago we both happened to be in New York City.  Of course his hotel was far from mine and I should have known any gentleman would come closer to my hotel to meet for dinner--but this is Ran after all.  So like any sandbagger who shamelessly asks for strokes, he bellowed he would not go more than 20 blocks to meet me for a late dinner at 10pm. Ugh, the things you do when a southern drawl begs for things.  So I arranged a dinner at JG Melon for a proper NYC hamburger and restorative. Our octogenarian Carol Channing quaffed waitress seemed to long for Ran with eyes like a teenage crush but service like a surly long haul trucker.  Ran asked me when I was going to whisper him the secret of the next Whippoorwill so that he can profile it and claim discovery for himself.  I think I may have to keep that secret to Tuco's grave.

By the way, AARP is looking for a few good men Ran.

P.S. Tom Dunne is a resident expert on the Whip and I hope he opines here..
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 10:13:54 PM by Noel Freeman »

Mike Sweeney

Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 09:54:14 PM »
Noel,

Here is my list from 9 years ago, where do you think Whippoorwill belongs today?

Top 10 played:

1. NGLA
2. Fishers
3. Shinnecock
4. Yale
5. The Creek
6. Mid-Ocean
7. Mountain Lake
9. MPCC
9. Whipporrwill
10. Forsgate
11. Southampton since my # 3 pick was an obvious dig at the Flynners here at GCA, and I have never played Westhampton.  :)

I would be shocked if all reports on Camargo and Piping Rock are incorrect, so I would expect them to bump the above. Not so sure about Lookout Mountain, Chicago and Yeamans, though they sound like great places.
Code: [Select]

Piping Rock would probably bounce around Yale depending on my homerism, and clearly Whipporrwill could jump over MPCC, if MPCC builds a Fazio. Yes, it may be better than Mountain Lake, but the raters tend to all trend to the "famous" courses. Southampton has made simolar improvements, but not sure it has jumped over any MacRaynorBanks courses?

Where would you rank it today?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 10:00:37 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Neil Regan

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 10:01:11 PM »
Thanks, Ran.
We here have known about Whippoorwill since before your precious eyes opened to their first dawn.
Now you have crowed to the world.
Is the world a better place?
I think not.
But now my GCA friends will coo like the night bird when they visit.
Hark the whippoorwill is calling, all through the night.
Must you tell the world everything you know?

PS There are 2 more places here in Westchester of which you are unaware.
Don't die young.
Grass speed  <>  Green Speed

Noel Freeman

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 10:10:35 PM »
Noel,

Here is my list from 9 years ago, where do you think Whippoorwill belongs today?

Top 10 played:

1. NGLA
2. Fishers
3. Shinnecock
4. Yale
5. The Creek
6. Mid-Ocean
7. Mountain Lake
9. MPCC
9. Whipporrwill
10. Forsgate
11. Southampton since my # 3 pick was an obvious dig at the Flynners here at GCA, and I have never played Westhampton.  :)

I would be shocked if all reports on Camargo and Piping Rock are incorrect, so I would expect them to bump the above. Not so sure about Lookout Mountain, Chicago and Yeamans, though they sound like great places.
Code: [Select]

Piping Rock would probably bounce around Yale depending on my homerism, and clearly Whipporrwill could jump over MPCC, if MPCC builds a Fazio. Yes, it may be better than Mountain Lake, but the raters tend to all trend to the "famous" courses. Southampton has made simolar improvements, but not sure it has jumped over any MacRaynorBanks courses?

Where would you rank it today?

My list would be on Mac/Raynor/Banks

NGLA
Fishers- Need I say more despite the pedestrian few holes on the back (15,17) and the weak redan.
Yale- homerism blatantly here..
Shoreacres (I prefer to Chicago, I just do but barely, the ravines are cracking good golf and short enough to score and tempt you)
Chicago- I'm sorry, I see the greatness but it didn't wow me like I was hoping
The Whip- A matt wardian TOUR DE FORCE throughout the whole round.
Creek- just a few pedestrian holes sprinkled in there despite my love of the place..
Sleepy Hollow
Piping Rock
Mountain Lake..
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 10:16:14 PM by Noel Freeman »

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2014, 11:11:47 PM »
Question: Who is "Poor Will" and why did they wish to whip him?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jeff_Lewis

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2014, 11:30:47 PM »
Thanks, old pal, for posting a profile of a course most of the geeks would never seek.  Wonderful stuff. 

Jim Nugent

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2014, 12:27:12 AM »
If the course plays even close to how it looks in these photos, the members really have something special. 

The picture makes the par 5 16th look more like a redan green than the par 3 11th. 

Pat Burke

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2014, 03:36:37 AM »
My dad was the head pro at Deal GC on the Jersey Shore.
I was a decent player as a kid, but not particularly serious about it.
I qualified for the Met Junior at Whipporwhil when I was about 15.
It was the beginning of a change in golf attitude.  I won a couple of matches,
and if I remember correctly, beat the medalist in rd 1 of match play.
It was the first successful tournament I had.  My dad took a couple of days off work to
take me to the matches.  One thing that I still have never forgotten was when he called home
after the first match to talk to my mom.  I overheard him tell my mom "I had no idea he could play this well".
It was really the start of me believing I could play a little.

The moment I stepped on Bank's course, I loved it.  The movement in the ground, and the boldness of the features,
stood in contrast to Deal where I learned to play.  It really fit my eye, and I feel it inspired me in to playing
well.  It was just so much fun!
Thanks for the profile Ran.  Brought some very nice memories back.

Tom Dunne

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2014, 05:23:13 PM »
Tiny frown and sniffle that the Most Beloved didn't look me up while in the county. So it goes...

I don't think I would be a golfer today were it not for Whippoorwill, and I can definitely say it was the first course I ever saw that alerted me to the existence of something called golf architecture. I took the liberty of walking the course with my wife one freezing cold Christmas Day a few years ago, but other than that I haven't been there since the mid-'90s. I know Tripp Davis has worked there in recent years, but Ran's photos square with the course that I remember--which I obviously mean as a compliment. The stretch from 4-8 is really something special. The tee shot on 5 is always a blast as you're never quite sure where a straight ball will wind up. I believe the 9th green is one of the highest points in Westchester. On a clear day you can see the Manhattan skyline some 40 miles away.

Whippoorwill is a wonderful golf course and I'm glad to see it get the full profile treatment. Nice one, Ran.



 


Frank Pont

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2014, 05:31:15 PM »
Now there is a course that gets me excited.....

John Sabino

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2014, 06:53:49 PM »
Ran - As usual, you capture the essence of a place perfectly. I am in the Whippoorwill 'cult following' group and have felt for a long time this is a better course than many ranked as top courses in the world. It is always a delight to play, such drama and variety. Well done once again. John
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

John Mayhugh

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 07:33:57 AM »
Now why profile somewhere with all those "template" holes that looks just like every other Macdonald/Raynor/Banks course?    ;)


jeffwarne

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 08:40:17 AM »
My dad was the head pro at Deal GC on the Jersey Shore.
I was a decent player as a kid, but not particularly serious about it.
I qualified for the Met Junior at Whipporwhil when I was about 15.
It was the beginning of a change in golf attitude.  I won a couple of matches,
and if I remember correctly, beat the medalist in rd 1 of match play.
It was the first successful tournament I had.  My dad took a couple of days off work to
take me to the matches.  One thing that I still have never forgotten was when he called home
after the first match to talk to my mom.  I overheard him tell my mom "I had no idea he could play this well".
It was really the start of me believing I could play a little.

The moment I stepped on Bank's course, I loved it.  The movement in the ground, and the boldness of the features,
stood in contrast to Deal where I learned to play.  It really fit my eye, and I feel it inspired me in to playing
well.  It was just so much fun!
Thanks for the profile Ran.  Brought some very nice memories back.

Great stuff Pat.
Amazing how certain courses can inspire great play, motivate one to greater heights, and most importantly stir a passion that was previously lying dormant.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill Crane

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 01:08:27 PM »
WOW !!

I am only through viewing the front nine at Whipporwill and you can definitely see the similarity to Yale.
 
Despite hectoring from Colin Sheehan, I have really enjoyed getting to know Yale by playing there two or three times a year via the O C.   Despite the Ivy League connection, it is the polar opposite of my home club – Springdale, in Princeton that serves as P Us home venue.

As a skier, when  I play a course like W or Yale it feels to me like you have to “Ski” your ball through the slopes , almost like a mogul run.

Firm and fast on a course like this would really be a different brand of golf than most US golfers have ever been exposed to.  Leaves in fall could be tricky to dispose of!

Gonna have to find a way to experience a round at Whipporwill to compare it to Yale.

Ran - thanks again for expanding our golf architecture boundaries.

Wm Flynnfan
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 12:07:09 PM by Bill Crane »
_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

Mark McKeever

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2014, 02:31:18 PM »
Course looks great!  Thanks for the profile Ran!

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Mike Hendren

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2014, 11:48:05 AM »
Wow.  Double Wow.

This looks like a whole nutha level above Knoll and Forsgate, two courses I thoroughly enjoyed.   Just when I schedule a game in the neighborhood in late September you profile this temptress. Who will send bail money if I get caught trespassing?

Wow again.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Nate Oxman

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 09:00:40 AM »
"Raynor’s death, in January 1926 at the age of 47, occurred while the firm had more than 10 courses in various stages of construction. Although grief stricken by the loss of his dear friend, Banks immediately took charge and went on to complete those courses."

Please forgive me for not researching this myself, but what were those "more than 10 courses in various stages of construction?"

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2014, 01:25:09 AM »
Wow! I grew up in Westchester, but sure missed sure missed this one. Looks awesome.
Tim Weiman

Phil Benedict

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2014, 10:21:28 PM »
I played Whippoorwill many times as a guest.  Unfortunately my host's health went South a few years ago and he passed away last winter.  I miss playing Whippoorwill and wished my friend had lived to read Ran's profile.

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Whippoorwill course profile is posted ...
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2014, 06:02:05 PM »
Is this a private or public course? I'm just asking, because Ran is wondering why it doesn't have the same cult following as Cruden Bay and St Enodoc. So I suppose this one is actually accessible?

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

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