[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

What with the blackout and all last week when I was up in the NY area I have neglected to give a GCA acknowledgement of the wonderful day I spent at Olde Kinderhook with Paul Perrella.

If I get some more time maybe some more pictures of the course will follow, but for now these will have to suffice.


Paul and I on the 9th Tee.


Paul this picture you took at the post game festivities turned out pretty well also.  In case you cant see this well enough this isnt the Wannamaker Trophy I have held aloft.  Paul, thanks again for a great day (and then some).  By the way my head hurt that next morning.

If there had been any awards given that night it would have been to one of my playing partners and not me, for the Eagle Barrage that I witnessed.  Good stuff.

The course was wonderful and the club atmosphere just the way I like it.  Light on the pomp and circumstance and heavy on the Golf.  I think that even the harshest of Rees bashers would have trouble identifying this course if you didnt know.  Agian I will post some of those course photos as well.

[T_MacWood]

Turboe
Who is the guy lofting the cup? He looks to have been drinking heavily. Does he know you posted his picture over the WorldWideWeb?  

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

I have not had a chance to talk with "that particular guy" to get his permission directly, but I do see a very close relative of his every day and I advised him that I would be posting that picture, so it is OK.  

I might get a chance to talk with that guy this weekend at a neighborhood block party that is being thrown, and if I can remember to so, I will make sure I ask for his permission.

I also managed to download another image (a time consuming process using this old dial up service):


The greensite of the Par 5 Third hole.  

Your second shot is somewhat blind playing over the crest in the ridge.  This is the view you are greeted with when you walk up over the hill for you approach to the green.  The farm buildings you see in the background are part of the original farm yard that occupied the land originally.  The complex is now comletely integrated as the maintaince facility.  Being a farm kid originally myself, I love how they incorporated it into the center of the course away from the spartan clubhouse out near the edge of the property (near 9 & 18), I love how they bring you back near the farm complex several times and even incorporate a couple tee boxes very close by some of the buildings.  You almost can feel what this place looked like when the farmer was out doing his work, only it probably smells a lot better now.

[T_MacWood]

The green has that typical platform look that is common with Rees (somewhat similar to a Raynor or Langford), but the bunkering appears atypical. No hard edges, or hard shapes or super pronounced capes and bays...at least in this photo. Interesting.

What can we attritube this to? Is this a new direction or were there extenuating circumstances @ OK?

[John Foley]

Great pics! Loved the 3rd green, expecially since you don't get a look at it untill after you hit your 2nd shot.

The incorporation of the farm was reallly cool.

What did you think 0f the 4th hole & the 5th green. Very wild & fun!

How tough are 9 & 18?

[Michael Dugger]

Wow, Macwood, you big softie.  Way to give some unbiased 'props' to Rees.  You should have known Olde Kinderhook was the bomb, Mucci and Ward said so.

From the picture I must agree, as much as I hate to admit it

I wish we could see more, TURBOE, where are the rest???

 

[Matt_Ward]

Turboe:

Good stuff indeed! The course looks grand -- please post some additional photos for all the "doubting" Thomas types out there regarding the quality of Olde Kinderhook.

P.S. I've said this before but Olde Kinderhook has the qualities to be rated in the top ten in The Empire State. I know that's saying plenty but the layout says even more.

[Patrick_Mucci]

MDugger,

As usual, you're wrong again.

I've never seen Olde Kinderhook,

and,

I've never commented on it.

You must be confused..... again    

Perhaps you're thinking of a course 50 miles from Olde Kinderhook ?    

[Michael Dugger]

Mucci

No, you're the one who is wrong....again.  Go reread my post, I never said you've seen Olde Kinderhook.  

Do you want to deny that you've never said Rees Jones builds good golf courses?  Any thespian would be able to infer that that goes for Olde as well, of course, considering it's a Rees design.

How crazy of me!

Ok, you're right and I'm wrong.  t'was Ward that said Olde was a great design.  I bet you are just DYING to play it, aren't??  Elysian Fields, kin to genesis.  

I do confuse easily, though, you're right about that too.  From time to time I actually find myself believing a lot of what people around here say about you being a charming guy and all.

   

[Patrick_Mucci]

MDugger,

They must know what they're talking about  

[Mike_Cirba]

As someone who has been vocally critical of any number of Rees Jones courses I've played, I would like to say the following;

Olde Kinderhook is the best Rees Jones course I've ever played.  I believe it is one of the 100 best golf courses built in this country since WWII.  It is challenging enough to host a US Open, yet provides much interest and fun for the lesser player.  Aesthetically (where I usually have a BIG problem with Rees), it has a raw, understated feel and falls unobtrusively on the land.  

I hope that Rees builds more courses as good as OK.  

[larry_munger]

Are those really RJ bunkers in that picture? Would love to see more pic's

[Mike_Cirba]

Larry Munger;

Geoffrey and I couldn't believe it either!  

The bunkers are beautifully crafted, rugged, natural looking, and are unlike any others by Rees Jones that I'm familiar with.

[GeoffreyC]

I'll also put in an affirmation of the positive comments about OK.

The first two holes had containment on the sides but none afterwards.  The second is a teriffic hole with one of the best greens complexes on the course. There is more natural use of the landforms at OK then any other RJ course I've played including Ocean Forest.  

If there were more immaginative greens contours he would really be entering new territory. OK is absolutely a top 100 (modern) effort.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

OK due to popular deman here are some more pictures from that day.  Again I apologize for the smaller size of these pictures, I only wish that I knew how to get these to show up as nice and large as they are on my computer.

Anyway here they are:


The 4th a 200yd par 3 down hill over native vegetation on the hillside.


12th Tee shot, a 405yd par 4.  The tee shot is framed nicely by the bunkers cut into the hillside on the right.


View of the 13th green from the 12th fairway.  The 13th is a great par 5 measuring 560yds the tee shot must carry a portion of the wetlands area you can see in the foreground of this view.  From the tee the wetland area plays diagonally from left to right.  A great strategic hole.


The approach on the 493yd par 4 14th.  The bunker and mound on the front left is 10yds short of the green and the experienced player often uses the slope behind that mound to kick the ball down and right onto the green.

OKGC is a great club and a backbreaker of a course.  Yes John especially 9 & 18.  I think many people would be pleasantly surprised to see the noticable lack of Ree's trademark chocolate drop containment mounding.

[Matt_Ward]

Turboe:

Thanks for posting some pictures -- you need to help me out. How would you rate Olde Kinderhook as a golf course? Is it better than "x" course and if you can name courses please do. Please don't tap dance -- try to be as specific as possible.

I look forward to your commentary.

Thanks ...

matt

[Michael Dugger]

turboe

I believe the problem with the images is that you are posting them through the Sony Imagestation website.  I'm pretty sure that they don't allow anything bigger to get through because it takes up more space.  If you emailed them to someone who has purchased webspace through something like a members.verizon....a la Tommy, Childs or P. Turner then your picts would come through as originally sized.  

Of course you don't really need them any larger than about 800 x 600 but this might be too much info.


P.S.  Olde Kinderhook does look very un-Rees like.  I have no problems with it getting the props it deserves.

Bravo Rees, I'd love to play it.  

[JerryZuckerman]

I see a lot of earthmovement going on around this place and from the pictures a lot of sand traps that do look like Rees Jones style. Were some of you just a little too transfixxed on the rough grasses to really notice?



What do you call those really similarly shaped mounds in those sand traps? Doesn't the entire shape of that left trap remind you of the typical that most on this website lambast him for? In all of the photos shown it looks like they moved all sorts of dirt to get the finished product.

[Michael Dugger]

Zuckerman.....what is this, some kind of reverse psychology thing???  

I don't think those look like typical Rees Jones bunkers and mounds.  Just my opinion but they don't look are uniform and symetrical as most.  Nor does the golf course look like it was "built" on the site, it looks very well intergrated with the existing landscape.

I never thought I'd find myself defending a Rees Jones design but I disagree with you, Zuckerman.
 
Now, the real question, do you (Zuckerman) really exist or are you trying some reverse manipulation B.S. to promote your agenda, like so many around here believe occurs.  

[JerryZuckerman]

Excuse me, isn't this a place where we are allowed to freely express our opinions? Why are you getting on me for expressing mine? I have told you what I think and if you disagree, then just agree to just disagree. Don't spout your rhetoric on me. I'm making an observation that quite obviously you don't see the same as me. I'll stick with my obeservations. You can stick with yours.

[JerryZuckerman]

And by the way, Mucci is right about you.

[Michael Dugger]

Zuckes........hang around here for a little longer than five posts before you start drawing conclusions on 'who is what' around here, ok?  Popular I'm not, but neither was...oh nevermind.

I've got a few ideas about what you are but I'll save them for the foggy grey matter that resides inside my dome.  

Moving along, care to share with us what about Olde Kinderhook seems so "Rees".  I was wondering where exactly it looks like there has been a lot of dirt moved.  It looks to me like the holes follow the natural contour of the land quite nicely.  What is it about the bunkers that make them seem so "Rees" when others who have seen plenty of Rees courses have gone on the record stating they look quite the opposite of Rees' standard fare....and believe me, his bunkers are quite well-known.  

Just opinions, that's all I'm looking for.  Of course you are most certainly entitled to it.  I'd hope, in hindsight, however, that your opinions will be based on SOMETHING, something resembling fact and not fiction.

Sorry to rub you the wrong way

And by the way, Mucci is right about everything

[JerryZuckerman]

dugger

In case you didn't see in my previous posts, I have described to you what I didn't like and how it looks like the same I have seen from the designer in question that gets punished pretty hard from this site. I also don't think you really realize just how much dirt was moved, but by the looks of all of the mounds and shaping going into the bunkers, as well as the containment hillsides, it does look like an awful lot.

This is why Mr. Mucci is right in regards to judging pictures on the internet. There are some that know what they are looking at and others that quite frankly don't.

Also, I have been a participant on this board for well over three years, which makes me a longer particpant then you. I make about 5 to 6 posts a year because that's all I care to. Today is a record for me. So don't judge me by the count you see on some ticker because I re-registered. Or weren't you smart enough to consider that a possibility?

[Michael Dugger]

Zuckes,

Let's cut to the chase, ok?  

Do you really think Olde Kinderhook looks like every other Rees Jones golf course?  Yes or No.

Is there nothing different, in respect to other Rees courses, about it at all?

If Pat Mucci said it was "different" would you believe it then?

Have you seen the course?

Stick around a while, or are you the type to drop a couple of insults, give us your baseless "two bits" and scurry back off to the confines of your office?

[JerryZuckerman]

Just like you, I have not seen OK, nor plan to, nor have I ever had any contact with the members there. I have given you the reasons why I think it looks like a Rees Jones golf course yet you have not given me one reason why it doesn't.

So, why don't you cut to the chase and get back to into your math homework or something or there will be no VR Power Rangers for you after school today!

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