William Flynn and Pimples

[Ed Brzezowski]

We are looking at rennovating our 11th green at Concord, outside of Philly. We are taking great care to retain the pimple in the middle back  of the green. Is this a typical Flynn feature on his courses? The only two I can recall are the long lost pimple on Pine Valleys 18th and the one short left of Merions East 12th green. I know Flynn did not design these courses but depending upon who you believe he may have had influence on both courses.

Are there any more Flynn pimples out there?

[Rory Connaughton]

Not quite the old pimple on 18 at PV but Lancaster 17 has a mound that has incredible influence on almost every putt

[Mark McKeever]

The 8th green at Philadelphia Cricket Club (St. Martins) has a pimple in the middle of the green.  Not a Flynn, but perhaps an inspiration.

Mark

[JNagle]

The pimple which you mention on your 11th green is integral to the hole as well as a feature used by many classic era golf course architects.  Specific to Flynn we see this feature on many of his courses.  He would often have three high points within one green at various points around the dial.  Some HP's are found within the green (but close to the edges), some outside the edge of the green and some found to be on the edge of the green (now collar) and rough.  With the 11th at Concord playing uphill, this particular "pimple" helps with defining the back edge or limit of the green.  Combine this with an original false-front and a visible high point at the rear of the green, the majority of golfers therefore have an idea of the overall depth of the green from front to back.  They also will provide a certain amount of ball containment.  They act as a feature on the surface which golfers must contend with when putting. 

When the green is reconstructed this Fall, you will see not only a expansion of cuppable area but also an expansion of collar and green to further highlight the HP and the other character that is lost when subtle undulations and contours are covered under 2+ inches of rough or step cuts.

The greens at Concord, and the bunkers for that matter, are such a deviation from "standard" (yes, I know not the best word to use) designs of Flynn.  The place really has a look and feel, especially the greens, of a Ross course.  Would love to find out who built the place.  After all we know Gordon built Philmont for Park and that may be where all the confusion came about because the bunkers looked so much like a Flynn course.  Makes me wonder if JB McGovern built Concord for Flynn. 

[Joe Bausch]

My photo album of Concord is here:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Concord/

My visit courtesy of Ed Brzezowski!

[Phil Young]

On August 15, 1936, Tilly visited and inspected the Concord Country Club and made numerous suggestions, some of which he mentions in his letter. He recommended reducing a number of greens in size, building at least one new green and locating a new tee for the 11th hole which would be on the site of the "old" 10th green. I'd be keenly interested to see if the work was ever carried out.

[Dan Herrmann]

Wow - that letter is quite a find!

[Phil Young]

Dan,

Tilly visited more than 430 courses if which we know. I would encourage any and all who have a club that was around back in the mid-30s and earlier to visit teh Tillinghast Association website to see if he visited yours. If its listed among the courses it will give abrief description of what he recommended (they are not listed alphabetically but by date and area) and you can then access the actual letter itself.

[Mike Hendren]

The pimple which you mention on your 11th green is integral to the hole as well as a feature used by many classic era golf course architects.  Specific to Flynn we see this feature on many of his courses.  He would often have three high points within one green at various points around the dial.  Some HP's are found within the green (but close to the edges), some outside the edge of the green and some found to be on the edge of the green (now collar) and rough.  With the 11th at Concord playing uphill, this particular "pimple" helps with defining the back edge or limit of the green.  Combine this with an original false-front and a visible high point at the rear of the green, the majority of golfers therefore have an idea of the overall depth of the green from front to back.  They also will provide a certain amount of ball containment.  They act as a feature on the surface which golfers must contend with when putting. 

This brings to mind the rear of the par three 8th at the Homestead's Cascades course.  A very short one-shotter that plays downhill.  The rear of the green is abruptly pushed up.  While it provides containment it's more important impact is to obfuscate the fact that all putts break toward the rear.  If short of the hole location one's downhill putt looks flat and even uphill.  One of my favorite short holes that I've never seen mentioned here.

Bogey

[Ed Brzezowski]

Oh good Lord Phil where can I get a copy of that letter?

Ed

[Ed Brzezowski]

The pimple which you mention on your 11th green is integral to the hole as well as a feature used by many classic era golf course architects.  Specific to Flynn we see this feature on many of his courses.  He would often have three high points within one green at various points around the dial.  Some HP's are found within the green (but close to the edges), some outside the edge of the green and some found to be on the edge of the green (now collar) and rough.  With the 11th at Concord playing uphill, this particular "pimple" helps with defining the back edge or limit of the green.  Combine this with an original false-front and a visible high point at the rear of the green, the majority of golfers therefore have an idea of the overall depth of the green from front to back.  They also will provide a certain amount of ball containment.  They act as a feature on the surface which golfers must contend with when putting. 

When the green is reconstructed this Fall, you will see not only a expansion of cuppable area but also an expansion of collar and green to further highlight the HP and the other character that is lost when subtle undulations and contours are covered under 2+ inches of rough or step cuts.

The greens at Concord, and the bunkers for that matter, are such a deviation from "standard" (yes, I know not the best word to use) designs of Flynn.  The place really has a look and feel, especially the greens, of a Ross course.  Would love to find out who built the place.  After all we know Gordon built Philmont for Park and that may be where all the confusion came about because the bunkers looked so much like a Flynn course.  Makes me wonder if JB McGovern built Concord for Flynn. 

We need to chat

[mike_malone]

Deleted my idiotic statement

[JNagle]

Ed - It is safe to say that the only potential work carried out from Tillinghast's visit is reduction to the 13th green (current #6).  We all recall the two bunkers fronting the green prior to their removal around 1999.  The remainder of his suggestions do not appear to have been implemented when one looks at the date of his visit and the aerial photos which are available post Tilly visit.  There is no new green for the 11th (current #5) and the green sizes for the 2nd (current 1st); 4th (current 10th); 12th (Par 3 which followed the original 11th and NLE) and the 15th current 8th appear to have never been modified.

The aerial photo was taken within a couple of years of his visit.

[Phil Young]

Jim,

Thanks for the info. There are many courses that carried out Tilly's recommendations and many that didn't. We're trying to slowly piece together who actually followed through...

[David Amarnek]

Phil,
Glad to see you back.
We at Westwood CC in St. Louis would love to know what Tillinghast suggested on his visit in 1937 and whether or not anything was carried out.
Keith Foster, who produced a master plan for our Championship Course, identified at least one green that looks like a Tilly and it would be considered our best green on the property.
Where will you publish your findings?
Any progress with the PGA to sort through their Tilly documents?
Thanks!
DLA

[Phil Young]

Hello David,

Tnhaks for the kind words. Its good to be back and say hello to you again! PM me with your eemaail address and I'll send a copy of the letter. In it Tilly mentions having completely examined the course and spending the entire day there. He made many recommendations and stated, "The Westwood Country Club course has great possibilitiesand when numerous structural mistakes are corrected gradually it should one of real distinction and championshipmaterial."

The reason that comment is quite important and shouldn't be considered a simple throw-away complimentary line is because of what he wrote the day before about the HillCourse at the French Lick resort. He wrote that it "is regarded as the 'Championship Course,' and although it cannot be classed so, it does represent a good layout..."

As far as the searach for the actual reports that would have gone with the cover letters which we have, two years ago the PGA granted me unlimited access to search for them everywhere. This included in the various storage facilities where which contain everything from overflow items from the museum to office items. None were found. I am now trying to make arrangements to search at another site which I learned might have accidently had them left there some years back. Hopefully I'll locate them there early this winter...