[Joe Hancock]

I played a Hale Irwin design near Driggs, ID (Teton Reserve, or was it Teton Reverse?) that was a reversible routing, so the concept is far from new. However, I expect TD and crew to make it work in a way that it likely hasn't in previous attempts.(In a positive way).

I'd love to hear the conversations as they progress.

Joe

[Tom_Doak]

Tom

I saw your response on the other thread about Silvies Valley Ranch, and in particular your comment that Simpson dabbled in design of this sort back in the day.

I always thought Mackenzie's lost course, El Boqueran, had reversible qualities.

Can you think of any other examples of this???

Michael:

I do not mention it in the p.r. for this course, because Mr. Keiser is still uncomfortable with its status, but we have already played with this concept at The Sheep Ranch, where holes can be played backwards and forwards and sideways, too.

I remember hearing about the Hale Irwin project in the planning phase, but I didn't know if it ever opened, or succeeded.  I believe there was a reversible nine-hole course on the site of what is now DeBordieu, in Myrtle Beach, though I never saw it.

I did play The Old Course in reverse a few years back, when we took George Bahto over to Scotland before we started Old Macdonald.  It doesn't work so well now, because they've stopped mowing the approaches into some greens as played in reverse; and it was clearly not nearly as interesting of a course playing down the left side.  That will be the real challenge of this design, to get it where not everyone has thinks that clockwise is better than anti-clockwise [or vice versa ].

[Greg Tallman]

With all due respect to the others I really think TD is the one guy who can/will make this work to it maximum potential both ways. Look forward to playing the finished product.

[JC Jones]

I agree, Tom seems like the one guy out there who could do it both ways.  Creativity is a must and he has it in spades.

Any idea what the names of the routings will be?

[Greg Tallman]

Any idea what the names of the routings will be?

Forrest and Dunes?

[JC Jones]

Any idea what the names of the routings will be?

Forrest and Dunes?

I thought colors were all the rage

[Tom_Doak]

With all due respect to the others I really think TD is the one guy who can/will make this work to it maximum potential both ways. Look forward to playing the finished product.

Greg:

I have heard this from a few people the last week; thank you for the vote of confidence.  I hope you are not all putting the hex on me!

I walked the site again last week for the first time with the trees (mostly) down.  A lot of work has yet to happen, but I am confident that we can work it out.  There are a lot of cool small-scale features and it will be terrific to have those be the focus of the course for a change.

The hardest part will be to get it so the "reverse" course is as cool as the "forward" routing.  I'm going to have to start concentrating most of my efforts on the reverse course and design more of the greens and bunkers from that perspective, since most of the routing was done the other way round.

JC:  No, we haven't agreed on names yet.  "Clockwise" and "Counter-Clockwise" is a bit cumbersome.  In fact, I was thinking yesterday that it might be better if we DIDN'T name them separately so that it will be harder for people to declare a favorite.

[BHoover]

I think that "The Challenge at Forest Dunes " and "The Experience at Forest Dunes" has a nice ring to it. #1990s

[JC Jones]

I agree with Tom that naming them might be a bit much.  I guess it will depend on how differently they play. 

[Richard Hetzel]

Here you go Tom, nice and SIMPLE:

THIS WAY and THAT WAY

[Greg Tallman]

Here you go Tom, nice and SIMPLE:

THIS WAY and THAT WAY

Thissaway
&
Thattaway

Not bad at all.

Maybe

Roscommon
&
Nommocsor

[Michael George]

How about Front and Back?  You could say that you played the front 9 on the front and the back nine on the back.  Delightfully confusing for a nicely unique concept.

Forward and Reverse if you don't like the word play.

[Tom_Doak]

How about Front and Back?  You could say that you played the front 9 on the front and the back nine on the back.  Delightfully confusing for a nicely unique concept.

Forward and Reverse if you don't like the word play.

I don't like Forward and Reverse because it implies that one is the "standard" or preferred way, which we are trying to avoid. 

I liked the idea of just having the greens numbered 1 to 18 where some days you started counting down instead of up, except again, that would imply that 1-18 was the "real" routing.  It would emphasize that you are playing to the same greens ... but the weird thing is when you're playing to 17 green backwards, you are coming up a different fairway!  [17 is a par 3 when playing 1-18, but a long 4 or a par 5 when playing 18-1.]

It could be Odd and Even, because one will be in play on the odd days of the month, the other on the even days.

[Garland Bayley]

Palindrome 1 and Palindrome 2

[Michael George]

If that is their plan, odd and even is perfect.  Simple and unique.

Good luck Tom. I am excited to see it.  

Kudos to you for "re-introducing" this idea and for Forest Dunes for the guts to do it.  Golf needs concepts like this one.  

Might we see a Biarritz green. Seems like a natural for this idea.

[Wyatt Halliday]

If that is their plan, odd and even is perfect.  Simple and unique.

Good luck Tom. I am excited to see it.  

Kudos to you for "re-introducing" this idea and for Forest Dunes for the guts to do it.  Golf needs concepts like this one.  

Might we see a Biarritz green. Seems like a natural for this idea.

Oh no! How on earth is anyone going to be able to properly rate this???

Can't wait to see how Dr. Klein arrives at his walk in the park score for even and odd.

[Wyatt Halliday]

All B.S. aside, this has immediately hit the top of my list for must sees upon opening.
Something that while re-introduced, is going to be widely considered conceptual and innovative.

Best of luck with the project Tom.

[Ruediger Meyer]

Good Luck with the project Tom, very excited for this one. You should name the two routings after The Hobbit 

There...
...and Back Again

Or Keep it Simple. In and Out

[Dustin Ferrell]

Really neat concept.  Being in MI, an addition at Forest Dunes will make that trip even better now that there will be a couple options for play.  Not to mention, multiday trips getting to potentially play Tom's course both directions. 

From a maintenance perspective, seems like giving opposing teeboxes and greens every other day off from heavy traffic will be a great way to keep the course playing in great condition.  Obviously the approaches into the greens will be different each way as well.  Looking forward to following the progress and thanks for sharing with the board, Tom.

[Jud_T]

1.  So does that mean odd will be in play 2 days in a row at the end of May, July, August and October?

2.  For the inevitable 'favorite 18' thread are we comparing 17 vs. 17 or 2 vs. 17?   

3.  How about rotating barrels of custom brewed draft beer from Shorts in the clubhouse named and styled after the 2 courses?

[Josh Tarble]

How about Leaders and Legends?  Seemed to work out well for the B1G 


In all seriousness, I think this is a fantastic idea for a destination course and surprised it hasn't been done successfully before.  Now it will be necessary to stay 3 days instead of 1 or 2.

[Will Lozier]

Yesterday, my 3-year-old Lily and I checked a book out of the library called "Octopus Opposites"...perhaps the name lies somewhere within? 

[Mark Fedeli]

I am unexplainably excited for this.

And I can't help but think it will only raise the GCA knowledge of all who play on it, as they try to decide which course they liked better and why.

Being forced to consider why you like a hole one way versus the other, with all things equal but the ground, will be illuminating for even the most casual of golfers.

Rock on, Tom.

[Bill_McBride]

So some greens will be front to back sloping in one direction and back to front in the other.  Some could have a spine from 9 to 3 and play back to front in either direction.  Or imagine playing a Redan from the other direction.  This could really be a lot of fun!

[Greg Tallman]

1.  So does that mean odd will be in play 2 days in a row at the end of May, July, August and October?

2.  For the inevitable 'favorite 18' thread are we comparing 17 vs. 17 or 2 vs. 17?   

3.  How about rotating barrels of custom brewed draft beer from Shorts in the clubhouse named and styled after the 2 courses?

You forgot the obligatory composite course discussion. Should be fun.

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