[Paul Gray]

Putting aside the obvious comments from the great unwashed about the course not looking pretty, what will  the detractors actually be coming up with to justify their inherent displeasure with a move back to 'proper golf,' players and spectators alike?

[BHoover]

The unfair and random lies in the waste areas and wiregrass.  The tight lies on browned out playing surfaces.

[Paul Gray]

Oh Brian, I so hope you're right.

I'm afraid I can't imagine the members at my last club reacting in any other way. I can almost hear them now stating that "it doesn't even look as well kept as our course."

[John Sabino]

Delineation of waste area from bunker, ala Dustin Johnson at Whistling Straits, although hopefully the USGA will moot the issue with a rules official in each group ready to offer a speedy opinion if asked

[Carl Rogers]

my first comment is not relevant to the event itself.
....the "natural" or "waste areas" are not without their own need for maintenance, its own cost and challenges to keep the "look".  Just as ANGC has a hopelessly unrealistic look for 99.9999% of golf courses, Pinehurst will have a very different but just as unrealisitic look for 99.9999% of all courses.

my second comment is that slightly imperfect approach shots to the greens will lead to high scores, some will judge this as "unfair".

[Mac Plumart]

Perhaps the course is too good?  That will be the criticism.  It is so good and such a great test of golf, hole after hole after hole, with no silly hazards or over the top design features that no one will be able to blame anyone but themselves for failure. 

Who knows, but that's how I see it.

[RussBaribault]

I think a criticism might be especially from the Johnny Miller types are that the course will play nothing like a typical US Open. It will have very fast greens, but my understanding is the fairways have been widened and could/should be easier for the best players in the world. Also, without any thick rough to penalize players, the natural sand areas might not play as hard as people think. Meaning for guys playing instead of getting a deep rough lie, they could have a clean hit if they miss the fairway. Although, they could have an automatic bogey if it’s bad. No matter what it will be great tournament and great TV.

[Keith Grande]

It could go the other way to the extreme, as well.  Back in '04 when Shinnecock was running off the grid, there were some courses on the north shore of LI whose members wanted to be just like Shinny, and they had green speeds off the charts. 

However, the sandy conditions are not easilly replicated in many instances.  Courses will keep the rough up as it is the "only defense". 

[Matt Glore]

They will complain that they are getting penalized for going after flags with wedges, when they miss greens.

[Ryan Coles]

It could go the other way to the extreme, as well.  Back in '04 when Shinnecock was running off the grid, there were some courses on the north shore of LI whose members wanted to be just like Shinny, and they had green speeds off the charts. 

However, the sandy conditions are not easilly replicated in many instances.  Courses will keep the rough up as it is the "only defense". 

Was that the year they had to water the greens mid round?

[RussBaribault]

2004 US Open at Shinnecock they lost the course to hot, dry, windy conditions. Although it had the lowest US Open winning score of the three held there in the modern era.

[Jim Hoak]

I assume everyone saw or heard of the story on Golf Channel, where Bill Coore said that someone in the gallery Monday said to him, "I guess you're hoping for some rain."  He said, "No.  The opposite.  Why?"  And the man answered, "To get grass growing on all the brown spots."
I, too, hope that Brian S. is right that there will be few negative comments.  But I'm nervous.  Bill and Ben have done a great service to the game of golf by taking the risk on a course that looks  more like a British Open course than a US Open one.  That goes also for the guts of the owners and operators of Pinehurst.  And for Mike Davis who had the guts to act on his belief that water usage is the major issue facing golf in America today.
By the way, I think that Golf Channel is doing a good job of highlighting the golf course architecture issues involved in this Open.  I'm hoping for a wonderful two weeks that we will someday look back on as the turning point in golf course architecture and operation.

[Howard Riefs]

The unfair and random lies in the waste areas and wiregrass.  The tight lies on browned out playing surfaces.

Cue Bubba Watson:

"I'm going to try to lay farther back than normal because it's still iffy hitting in that -- I don't know what they call it: rough, dirt, sand," Watson said, referring to the course's many waste areas. "You don't know what lies you're going to get. So I'm going to lay back and have a lot longer shots into holes."  http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/06/listen-closely-and-bubba-watso.html

my second comment is that slightly imperfect approach shots to the greens will lead to high scores, some will judge this as "unfair".

Cue Bubba Watson:

"I wouldn't say unfair, I would just say that they're very difficult. I say they're unfriendly because when the pin's tucked on the left we're used to attacking that pin. "But now, even with a wedge in your hand you might be like 'You know what, let's go 30 feet over here to the right and not attack it.' So when I say unfriendly it's because they're trying to beat you, the greens are sitting there going, 'Okay, here's the pin, you can hit it here if you hit the perfect shot'.  
http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/585/9344738/bubba-watson-says-the-pinehurst-greens-are-unfriendly

[Ryan Coles]

Surely if the hype is correct it rewards and gives opportunity for creativity?

And no one is more creative than Bubba.

[Paul Gray]

Russ,

The whole idea of 'running golf' is for the ball to have more interaction with the turf, thus meaning that wider playing corridors can actually act as a problem because the thing keeps rolling until it finds the scrub. The idea that short grass is a hazard is so alien to most golfers, here in Britain as well as in America, that people struggle to get their heads around the concept. These are the principles which the game of golf was based on when first played on the sacred linkslands of Scotland and remain the most creative way to separate a field. Think back to Seve and The Open Championship. Any Tour pro will tell you that they're far more scared of flying the ball 290 yards and watching it roll than flying it 330 and watching it stop dead. It's why those in the know love to see brown fairways.

 

[MClutterbuck]

Most on the Board of my club think I am absolutely crazy when I tell them to please look at Pinehurst next few days so as to "open our minds" with respect to our own course. They do not even dare suggest to the membership that there might be some aspects to look at and potentially implement at our club. But then again, most people overseed their lawns in winter to avoid having to see dormant bermuda grass. It will take a long time to get eyes accustomed to a more natural look. At the end of the day, I think Pinehurst will be critized tremendously with respect to how it looks, but it will give those people that are more knowledgeable and have some influence over course maintenance some more ammo to defend changes in the right direction.

[Mark_Fine]

The turtleback putting surfaces with create controversy.  The domed surfaces are not original Ross (the result of years of topdressing and shaving off of the surrounding edges by Rees Jones) and there will likely be questions about why they were not restored to the 1943 era like the rest of the course was. 

[Brian Chapin]

I'm expecting to hear many say that "The course doesn't reward good shots"

[BHoover]

The unfair and random lies in the waste areas and wiregrass.  The tight lies on browned out playing surfaces.

Cue Bubba Watson:

"I'm going to try to lay farther back than normal because it's still iffy hitting in that -- I don't know what they call it: rough, dirt, sand," Watson said, referring to the course's many waste areas. "You don't know what lies you're going to get. So I'm going to lay back and have a lot longer shots into holes."  http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/06/listen-closely-and-bubba-watso.html

my second comment is that slightly imperfect approach shots to the greens will lead to high scores, some will judge this as "unfair".

Cue Bubba Watson:

"I wouldn't say unfair, I would just say that they're very difficult. I say they're unfriendly because when the pin's tucked on the left we're used to attacking that pin. "But now, even with a wedge in your hand you might be like 'You know what, let's go 30 feet over here to the right and not attack it.' So when I say unfriendly it's because they're trying to beat you, the greens are sitting there going, 'Okay, here's the pin, you can hit it here if you hit the perfect shot'.  
http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/585/9344738/bubba-watson-says-the-pinehurst-greens-are-unfriendly

He's such a flake. Granted, he's impressive in terms of how he plays shots. But he's still a tool.

[Matthew Petersen]

The unfair and random lies in the waste areas and wiregrass.  The tight lies on browned out playing surfaces.

Cue Bubba Watson:

"I'm going to try to lay farther back than normal because it's still iffy hitting in that -- I don't know what they call it: rough, dirt, sand," Watson said, referring to the course's many waste areas. "You don't know what lies you're going to get. So I'm going to lay back and have a lot longer shots into holes."  http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/06/listen-closely-and-bubba-watso.html

my second comment is that slightly imperfect approach shots to the greens will lead to high scores, some will judge this as "unfair".

Cue Bubba Watson:

"I wouldn't say unfair, I would just say that they're very difficult. I say they're unfriendly because when the pin's tucked on the left we're used to attacking that pin. "But now, even with a wedge in your hand you might be like 'You know what, let's go 30 feet over here to the right and not attack it.' So when I say unfriendly it's because they're trying to beat you, the greens are sitting there going, 'Okay, here's the pin, you can hit it here if you hit the perfect shot'.  
http://www.sportinglife.com/golf/news/article/585/9344738/bubba-watson-says-the-pinehurst-greens-are-unfriendly

He's such a flake. Granted, he's impressive in terms of how he plays shots. But he's still a tool.

Is this particular response based on his quotes? Or just general animus? I don't see anything in his statements that doesn't seem to be demonstrably true.

[Jim Nugent]

The domed surfaces are not original Ross (the result of years of topdressing and shaving off of the surrounding edges by Rees Jones) and there will likely be questions about why they were not restored to the 1943 era like the rest of the course was. 

Because it would make the course too easy for the pros?  I thought the greens are what ultimately defend Pinehurst. 

[Matthew Petersen]

The domed surfaces are not original Ross (the result of years of topdressing and shaving off of the surrounding edges by Rees Jones) and there will likely be questions about why they were not restored to the 1943 era like the rest of the course was. 

Because it would make the course too easy for the pros?  I thought the greens are what ultimately defend Pinehurst. 

My understanding is that's the ultimate reason C&C left them alone. To the extent that No. 2 has a defining feature that everyone knows about, it's the inverted saucer greens.

Now there are a lot of people, Pete Dye among them as I recall, who insist the severity of those contours has increased significantly over the decades. They may be right. But since it's the defining characteristic of the course and, perhaps more importantly as I understand it there are no very definitive records of just what the greens were like at any point during Ross' life, it was probably the right decision. Restoration gets really dangerous when you have limited information about what you're restoring something to.

[Mark_Fine]

Let me be clear, I am not one to suggest rebuilding old greens.  We rarely change an old green unless we absolutely have to (e.g. it has become unplayable because of back to front slope).  Even then, we first make sure the green is fully expanded out to the edges of the fillpad to see if that will suffice and allow adequate pin locations. 

In the case of #2, the point I was making is that the greens are now far and away the most changed aspect of the "restored" golf course.  Ross would not recognize them at all!  They have evolved to what they are and I agree they are a defining feature of #2.  However, it irks me when someone says that they are a prominent feature on Ross designs!  Turtle back greens are not!  I know the resort feels very strongly about not touching them and that is their choice but they should not claim they are pure Ross.  Some of their excessiveness is heightened by the tight cut around them.  That could be offset a bit if they raised the heights just a tad.  They are without question the most challenging greens I have ever played anywhere in the world.  They are even tougher than Oakmont's.  At U.S. Open speeds, they could make a mockery of the design.  Let's hope not because I do love Pinehurst #2 and all the work that Bill and Ben did to bring it back to life. It is an amazing design.

[Jason Thurman]

The biggest complaints will be in regards to the green speeds. Pinehurst's will be running very slowly by US Open and even Tour standards. The irony is that getting them faster would make them nearly unplayable, but most of the pros won't think of that part of the bigger picture. They'll simply be frustrated about having such a hard time judging speed correctly.

[Mike_Young]

There is the possibility that the short grass chipping areas will become an issue as play goes into the weekend.  Normally in long grass the pros would not have an issue but if many are using lofted wedges etc for play and small divots are being created there will be some bad lies for some delicate shots and there will be more shots than normal rolling into specific areas of these chipping areas.  Will be interesting to see if this is a problem. 

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