[Jon Wiggett]

Jon

I have several editions of the Golf World publication of UK & Irelands Top 1,000 Courses. Of course it doesn't rate the courses from 1 to 1,000 but what it does is rate the courses in each region giving stars from 1 to 5. Each course rating includes contact details and abbreviated comments from raters which tell you a lot more than a simple rating. The publications must be about 15 years old by now but still priceless for helping to find great golf you've never heard of before. If you get a chance to buy a copy in a second hand book store I'd urge you to do so.

On point, they also have top 100 listings at the front including best of list and also another one for value for money. Not suprisingly Silloth was top of the list for value for money. It might be an interesting exercise posting that list and seeing how it stacks up today.

Niall

Niall,

I was not aware of this publication and will have to keep an eye out for a copy.

Jon

[Mark Chaplin]

That's Golf World's credibility blown away, the original panel of county people, selectors, pros, senior administrators at least gave some balance and many of the panelists had visited many of the courses numerous times so knew them well.

I'm a well travelled golfer throughout the UK, Australia, NZ and the USA but I've played several of the top courses once or twice in 20 years so couldn't give a very objective analysis on many of them.

[Ally Mcintosh]

If anyone wants some highlights, In Ireland, Lahinch and Ballybunion move up (19 and 14 respectively) whilst Portrush and Portmarnock fall (8 and 20 respectively) in what the mag calls the two most surprising fallers. Given the change in panel this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Castle Stuart actually stayed roughly the same (31 from 28) so was wrongly reported.

Balmedie or is up 1 to number 7.

RCD remains at 1 with Muirfield climbing 2 to 4 and TOC climbing 3 to 6.

Sunny New up 5 to 17. Wentworth West continues to fall dramatically to 41.

First impression is wow climbs, less "wow" generally falls but that's maybe just my pre-conceived notions of what I expected to see from the new methodology.

[Niall C]

Jon

I'll give you a copy the next time we meet up.

Ally

Interesting, Balmedie International goes up one on the back of introducing rye grass. Nice one, do you think it will catch on ?

My barometer for these kind of lists is how high Silloth is placed. If it doesn't make the top 50 then the list can be dismissed out of hand. Of course if the list was any good at all Forfar would comfortably be in the top 100 

Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Jon

I'll give you a copy the next time we meet up.

Ally

Interesting, Balmedie International goes up one on the back of introducing rye grass. Nice one, do you think it will catch on ?

My barometer for these kind of lists is how high Silloth is placed. If it doesn't make the top 50 then the list can be dismissed out of hand. Of course if the list was any good at all Forfar would comfortably be in the top 100 

Niall

Silloth up 4 to 47. Good list

Forfar doesn't make the 200. Bad list

[Jon Wiggett]

Thanks Niall, look forward to that.

Jon

[Ryan Coles]

If anyone wants some highlights, In Ireland, Lahinch and Ballybunion move up (19 and 14 respectively) whilst Portrush and Portmarnock fall (8 and 20 respectively) in what the mag calls the two most surprising fallers. Given the change in panel this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Castle Stuart actually stayed roughly the same (31 from 28) so was wrongly reported.

Apologies. It was the Castle Course in the 50's.

[Ally Mcintosh]

If anyone wants some highlights, In Ireland, Lahinch and Ballybunion move up (19 and 14 respectively) whilst Portrush and Portmarnock fall (8 and 20 respectively) in what the mag calls the two most surprising fallers. Given the change in panel this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Castle Stuart actually stayed roughly the same (31 from 28) so was wrongly reported.

Apologies. It was the Castle Course in the 50's.

Indeed - It stayed about the same...

Couple of other movements for new courses...

Mach Dunes up about 15 to the 60's
Renaissance Club down about 15 to the 80's
Dundonald up about 10 to the 80's
Kingsbarns stays same at 16

Adare and Celtic Manor fall off the list (Glasgow Gailes, West Hill replacing them as new entries)

[Sean_A]

Anybody, why the love for Glasgow Gailes? 

Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean

As a former member there even I wouldn't go over the top on the course. As you know I was also a member at Silloth and Moray and I'd put those two above Gailes, although in the case of Moray Old, not by much. What I would say about Gailes is that they have done some terrific work in the last couple of years in clearing away gorse and trees which has made a huge difference on the par 3's in particular.

The course has some way to go (IMO) and has a conditioning issue in terms of the approaches and fringes to the greens that they need to address but slowly but surely the course is energing out of its blanket of vegetation. What it won't have is a view of the sea but personally that's never bothered me.

If you're ever up that way playing Dundonald for instance, then I'd suggest also pay Gailes a visit if you haven't already.

Niall 

[Thomas Dai]

I recall many moons ago a UK magazine that used to rank/rate course in brackets of 10, ie, top 10, 11-20, 21-30 etc but didn't allocate a specific slot within the bracket of ten? Anyone recall which magazine that was?
atb

[Mark Chaplin]

Golf World - they changed in the early 90s to specific rankings.

[Greg Taylor]

Yep GW - look at the last page and the rankings since '82 are listed.

[Mark Pearce]

I had a chance to read the printed edition, which lists the "next 100".  None of Elie, Goswick and Kington make that list.  Given that each is far better than a number of those that are listed I can't help but feel that the list's credibility completely collapses down there.  I also take away from many of the printed comments from panelists that they are looking for very different things from what. I want in a course.

[Mark Chaplin]

One Surrey heath I know well deals with raters in the best way possible. Take their booking, welcome them with open arms and take £120 off each of them. Can't be fairer than that, exactly the same service as every visitor!!

[Brian_Ewen]

Todays Golfer Magazine's Top 100 Scottish Courses :

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/courses-and-2-fore-1/top-100-golf-courses/top-100-golf-courses-scotland-2015/

[Colin Shellard]

Todays Golfer Magazine's Top 100 Scottish Courses :

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/courses-and-2-fore-1/top-100-golf-courses/top-100-golf-courses-scotland-2015/

Thanks for the Link Brian. As ever any ranking list is bound to cause consternation, but Forfar not making the top 100, and Meldrum House above Newmachar???

[Niall C]

Sean

As a former member there even I wouldn't go over the top on the course. As you know I was also a member at Silloth and Moray and I'd put those two above Gailes, although in the case of Moray Old, not by much. What I would say about Gailes is that they have done some terrific work in the last couple of years in clearing away gorse and trees which has made a huge difference on the par 3's in particular.

The course has some way to go (IMO) and has a conditioning issue in terms of the approaches and fringes to the greens that they need to address but slowly but surely the course is energing out of its blanket of vegetation. What it won't have is a view of the sea but personally that's never bothered me.

If you're ever up that way playing Dundonald for instance, then I'd suggest also pay Gailes a visit if you haven't already.

Niall 

Since my last post I've played Glasgow Gailes for the first time in a couple of years and the changes have had an even better impact than I thought. I may have to rethink my rating of Gailes below Moray.

Niall

[Niall C]

Todays Golfer Magazine's Top 100 Scottish Courses :

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/courses-and-2-fore-1/top-100-golf-courses/top-100-golf-courses-scotland-2015/

Donald's courses at 3 and 4. I wonder if that shows the power of advertising.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

Todays Golfer Magazine's Top 100 Scottish Courses :

http://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/courses-and-2-fore-1/top-100-golf-courses/top-100-golf-courses-scotland-2015/

All of these lists are controversial but this must be one of the worst I have ever seen.  Elie at 67 (and 15 behind Balcomie), the Eden below the Jubilee?  Prestwick only 14th?  Not a list I could place any reliance at all on.  Not that I ever do.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Remember the top of this list has to be in line with the GB&I Top 200 from May 2014.

Hence anything in the Top 100 remains in the same order. And nothing below 200 can jump ahead of anything in that bracket. Elie wasn't in the 200 hence a lowing rating. Neither was The Eden.

Also Trump's purchase of Turnberry can therefore have zero impact.

Prestwick at 14 can't move either. Surely that (GB&I thirties) is not wildly out of sync?

[Mark Pearce]

Ally,

Being consistent with another list doesn't make this right.  Do you agree that each of the top 13 is a better course than Prestwick.  I'm a member of both Crail and Elie and there's no doubt in my mind that Elie is a better course than Balcomie.  Do you think the Jubilee is a better course than the Eden?

[Jud_T]

re- The Machrie:

A short, quirky, links in a stunning location. Immense fun. A more quirky set of holes than North Berwick. More architects should visit to further their own educations and philosophies. With extensive work underway under new ownership, when that is completed expect this fabulous, remote links to rise back up.

If there's an internal logic to this combination of statements, it's beyond me...

[jeffwarne]

re- The Machrie:

A short, quirky, links in a stunning location. Immense fun. A more quirky set of holes than North Berwick. More architects should visit to further their own educations and philosophies. With extensive work underway under new ownership, when that is completed expect this fabulous, remote links to rise back up.

If there's an internal logic to this combination of statements, it's beyond me...

so when the architects visit, should they look at the old work as needing fixing?
or the new work?
or should they simply leave their CV and suggestions.......

[Sean_A]

Jeff

That is perhaps the biggest problem with redo/renovations.  Essentially what happens is design diversity/variety is narrowed...the same process as seeing Macdonald's appear on European high streets.  Even if it the newer stuff is "technically" better, a little bit of orginality is lost forever and that can't be a good thing.  Of course standardization will continue just as it has these past 100 years, but it would be cool if more people recognized some of the old design as valuable simply because its original or "second generation" original.  Just as people value old cars even though they know they are technically inferior to today's car.  It is irksome when folks talk in terms of best type/placement of bunkers or best types of greens.  All types and styles are good...its the balance which is key...and that balance changes depending on the terrain.

Ciao

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