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Peter Pallotta

A quick question about Lahinch
« on: May 01, 2014, 10:54:36 AM »
Sorry gents, this has probably been discussed before and/or the answer is probably easily found, but:

When Dr. Mackenzie renovated/revised Lahnich in the late 20s, did he ever record his thoughts about the strengths/weaknesses of the course as laid out 30 years earlier by Old Tom Morris?

I'm curious as to what Old Tom (working in what was still the 'Victorian Age' of gca) did with the natural site and how he chose to utilize its features -- at least, from Dr. Mac's perspective.

Thanks
Peter

Pete Lavallee

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Re: A quick question about Lahinch
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 11:05:29 AM »
I do know that the Good Doctor retained the Klondyke and the Dell holes from the original Old Tom course. Those are two of the most Victorian style holes I've ever played. Even in 1989 one had to hit a really good drive to get over the Klondyke with the second shot. The Dell is a great example of accepting what was there and turning it into an exciting and challanging hole. The dunes are so close to the green there that one can play bank shots off the back dune to back hole locations.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: A quick question about Lahinch
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 11:41:08 AM »
Klondyke is not an Old Tom hole I don't believe.

The course had changed a lot from Old Tom's time to MacKenzie's, through the pro first and then mainly through Charles Gibson in 1907.

MacKenzie's first three holes didn't last long, being changed somewhat in the following couple of years. A lot of his greens were then altered between 1930 and 1935.

I have a lot of info on the course but I don't have a lot of info of MacKenzie's actual design (including the exact location of those first 3 holes, the third of which I am sure played left of the current dune and likely wasn't blind - very different to the current hole).

Note that Old Tom's original design had 13 holes located over the road where The Castle Course is currently located.

Shane Wright

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Re: A quick question about Lahinch
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 11:48:36 AM »
In Ivan Morris' "Only Golf Spoken Here," he talks a fair amount about Lahinch changes.  However, I can't remember if the changes discussed were from OTM to Mackenzie, or Mackenzie to Hawtree.  I'm pretty sure it was the Hawtree changes that were discussed. 

Tom_Doak

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Re: A quick question about Lahinch
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 06:33:35 PM »
Peter:

I've never seen a copy of MacKenzie's report to Lahinch.  If the club has it in their archives, they have not chosen to reprint it in their club histories.

As Ally notes, the course that MacKenzie was called in to improve was not entirely Old Tom Morris' work.  Mr. Gibson had made significant changes to bring the course closer to the sea -- including the Klondyke.  Old Tom had thought the big dunes were too big and too volatile to venture into, past the Dell.  Indeed, some of MacKenzie's holes suffered significantly from drifting sand from the beaches -- I had a good tour from the secretary in 1982, and he told me that MacKenzie's original 7th, 8th and 12th greens were changed because they couldn't keep grass on them. 

Also, the secretary reported that many of the greens had been flattened by the head professional for many years, who doubled as the greenkeeper.  [It was implied that his views of them as a golfer might have impacted his views as to what was necessary to maintain them.  Before then, I had never stopped to think that this was probably quite common in the old days, where the professional and greenkeeper were the same fellow -- as was Old Tom himself.] 

Even if we had MacKenzie's report, if the club told him in advance that they were not receptive to changing Klondyke or Dell, you might not get his unfiltered view on those two holes.

Peter Pallotta

Re: A quick question about Lahinch
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2014, 09:16:45 AM »
Thank you, gents.

I was probably looking for too-simple an answer, but the various nuances/aspects you mentioned are in fact part of the actual answer.

I'd been reading about Old Tom at Lahinch (and Doroch), and suddenly really wanted to know what he was actually thinking and thought important/desirable about his design -- and what someone like Dr. Mac really thought about that design. 

Peter

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