Much ado about nothing

[Patrick_Mucci]

No Bill, I think the number of balls in the water were a result of a course becoming a nonsense in a wind.

It wasn't just any wind.
It was unusual, extremely high, howling winds with tornado warnings in the area

It's design is only suited to soft greens and calm conditions.

That's not true.

The courses I consider to be great are enhanced by wind.

ONLY TO A POINT (MPH)

[Patrick_Mucci]

But wouldn't better course management have kept balls out of the water? 

Bill,

You're correct.

Those greens are huge.

With high velocity winds, playing to the flagstick was golfing suicide.

Better course management might have meant fewer birdies and pars, but, fewer bogies, doubles and triples as well.

[Ryan Coles]

Bill and Kevin

I didn't introduce the course management of professionals into the discussion. I'm afraid that you did. This must be more palatable to you than saying the course played horrendously that day. Can you honestly say you think it reflects well on a course that in a limited field containing the worlds best that over 100 balls finished in the water?

Thanks for the GMac quote. Here's a few from a Gil Hanse fan, Phil Mickelson: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/mickelson-expected-little-bit-more-doral-redesign/

[Jim Nugent]

Ryan, it was a rough day, no question.  I read that Gil himself was upset, saying words to the effect that "it's not supposed to go like this."

The question, that I think you raised, is whether that harshness is part and parcel of the design/construction, or a temporary condition that will change naturally as the course grows in.  From what I read it's the latter. 

It says a lot to me that everyone I've read on GCA.com who's played the new course, really, really likes it. 

[Ryan Coles]

Jim

It says more to me that everyone is blaming everything other than the elephant in the room? Blame the pros, blame the tour, blame the set up etc

But, who decided to shape the greens so that many fall off into hazards? Who put bunkers at the front of green making it impossible to run the ball in?

Bill highlighted how to play bogey golf on 18 but how much fun did it sound to you? His approach completely failed to engage with any challenges presented. Largely because those presented do not provide a balance of risk and reward.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill and Kevin

I didn't introduce the course management of professionals into the discussion. I'm afraid that you did. This must be more palatable to you than saying the course played horrendously that day. Can you honestly say you think it reflects well on a course that in a limited field containing the worlds best that over 100 balls finished in the water?

Thanks for the GMac quote. Here's a few from a Gil Hanse fan, Phil Mickelson: http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/mickelson-expected-little-bit-more-doral-redesign/

Ryan, go back and look at your post #9.  That's where you defended the course management skills of the pros.    I played #18 the way I did because that's what good course management required to make my best score on the hole.   I took double out of play and almost made the par putt.  That's what good course management required in my case.   

I stand by my thought that the pros didn't recognize the difficulty and played shots that brought the water into play.  Sometimes deliberately hitting into a bunker is the best play. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim

It says more to me that everyone is blaming everything other than the elephant in the room?
Blame the pros, blame the tour, blame the set up etc

But, who decided to shape the greens so that many fall off into hazards?

How else would you shape a green in a location that gets torrential rains ?

When I played the course, on a windy day, not one ball rolled off a green into a hazard

Who put bunkers at the front of green making it impossible to run the ball in?[

When's the last time you saw PGA Tour Pros in the U.S.running the ball into the greens ?

And, what makes you think that you can't do that on certain holes at Doral ?

Are you aware of Dick Wilson's design philosophy ?

Bill highlighted how to play bogey golf on 18 but how much fun did it sound to you?
His approach completely failed to engage with any challenges presented.
Largely because those presented do not provide a balance of risk and reward.

I hit Driver down the right side, then 5 iron twenty feet past the hole and just missed birdie.
There's plenty of risk/reward on that hole, so I don't know why you would make that claim the hole is void of same.
Almost every approach shot into 18 green has plenty of risk and reward

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill,

I think that "newness" played a part in the difficulty the PGA Tour Pros had.

They are incredible golfers, but, there's only one factor that prevents them from "dialing in", the WIND.

When you add to that the "newness" of the course, that adds even more uncertainty to the mix.

And I think it was that combination that produced those scores.

I would be surprised if next years scores weren't lower as familiarity seems to produce better results