[archie_struthers]

 


Wouldn't the biggest advantage to golfers who use HGH be improved eyesight . Even more so than the ability to work harder and recover from injury ?  I'm thinking putting !

[Nigel Islam]

The sad thing is that I am not sure there is much advantage to golf. Golf is a sport of longevity and mental toughness where a talent such as Tom Watson can get in a British Open playoff at 59. Those that heavily use steroids and HGH tend to break down abruptly and frequently. I think that if you look at some the heavy users in baseball its pretty obvious that the meds actually affected their minds too.

[Bart Bradley]

Wouldn't the biggest advantage to golfers who use HGH be improved eyesight . Even more so than the ability to work harder and recover from injury ?  I'm thinking putting !

How would HGH improve ones eyesight?

[Mark Smolens]

"Not much advantage in golf??" So the fact that Barry Bonds was able to smash the existing home run records into smithereens because of his having ingested a wide range of performance enhancing drugs -- which among other things greatly improved his ability to see the balls being thrown to him -- wouldn't or couldn't provide an advantage to a golfer? Sorry, I see that as extraordinarily naïve. Bonds and McGwire had their physical  capabilities extended in terms of longevity through chemistry.

And yes, one or more of the drugs which were part of Barry Bonds' performance cocktail indeed improved his eyesight!

[Bart Bradley]

How do you know his eyesight improved ?  How do you know it was a result of the substances?

[Jordan Standefer]

How would HGH improve ones eyesight?

GAME OF SHADOWS (by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams) is an excellent read on the subject of modern PED usage, if you're interested.  It's mostly follows the PED usage in baseball by the likes of Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi, but I found the chapters on Marion Jones to be just as intriguing.

In it, they outlined that Bonds not only saw the effect of increased power and recovery, but reaction quickness and eyesight also improved significantly.

The sad thing is that I am not sure there is much advantage to golf.

Unfortunately, someone will find a drug or PED regimen that will be tailored to the game of golf (if they haven't already).  Steroids aren't for Eastern Bloc power lifters anymore.  Modern PED usage is a refined science.  Just look at how EPO is rampant in competitive cycling.

I hope golf never finds itself in the kind of mess baseball has been wading through, but if that day does come, it won't surprise me in the least.

[Nigel Islam]

"Not much advantage in golf??" So the fact that Barry Bonds was able to smash the existing home run records into smithereens because of his having ingested a wide range of performance enhancing drugs -- which among other things greatly improved his ability to see the balls being thrown to him -- wouldn't or couldn't provide an advantage to a golfer? Sorry, I see that as extraordinarily naïve. Bonds and McGwire had their physical  capabilities extended in terms of longevity through chemistry.

And yes, one or more of the drugs which were part of Barry Bonds' performance cocktail indeed improved his eyesight!

I guess what I meant was that Tiger's advantage wasn't his power, it was his mind. The reason he isn't winning majors is not because people are out driving him.

[Bart Bradley]

How would HGH improve ones eyesight?

GAME OF SHADOWS (by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams) is an excellent read on the subject of modern PED usage, if you're interested.  It's mostly follows the PED usage in baseball by the likes of Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi, but I found the chapters on Marion Jones to be just as intriguing.

In it, they outlined that Bonds not only saw the effect of increased power and recovery, but reaction quickness and eyesight also improved significantly.

The sad thing is that I am not sure there is much advantage to golf.

Unfortunately, someone will find a drug or PED regimen that will be tailored to the game of golf (if they haven't already).  Steroids aren't for Eastern Bloc power lifters anymore.  Modern PED usage is a refined science.  Just look at how EPO is rampant in competitive cycling.

I hope golf never finds itself in the kind of mess baseball has been wading through, but if that day does come, it won't surprise me in the least.

Jordan

Claims of improved eyesight are simply claims.  How would HGH help physiologically or anatomically?

I know of no studies that prove HGH helps eyesight.

Bart (ophthalmologist)

[Jordan Standefer]

I know of no studies that prove HGH helps eyesight.

Bart (ophthalmologist)

You're right.  They are just claims.  You would certainly know more about the science than I.  I was just trying provide a published source for what was stated earlier.

How would HGH help physiologically or anatomically?

Most athletes that use HGH use it for its recovery purposes, correct? 

Hypothetically speaking...

Say golfer A gets hurt (shoulder, knee, whatever) in September and will be out of competition for 6-8 months.  His first tournament back is the Masters the next April.  Without any competitive rounds under his belt in the new year, he misses the cut.

Golfer B has the same injury, at the same time, with the same 6-8 month window, but he takes HGH to recover more quickly from his injury.  He gets back to competition earlier and knocks the rust off on the West Coast swing and when the Masters rolls around he makes the cut (or wins).

Some people don't consider HGH use for recovery purposes as on the same level as other steroid use (see Andy Pettite).  Personally, I do.  In the example above, I think golfer B cheated to get ahead.

Perhaps that is an oversimplified example.  (Not trying to be argumentative, those are just my thoughts.)

[Grant Saunders]

If you consider the very definition of a performance enhancing drug, than any type of pain killer (even aspirin) is enabling a person to perform in a manner that they would not be able to otherwise without using the substance. If you are going to take a stance against PED's then who draws the line?

Again, I asked on the thread about tiger pulling out of bay hill, can someone who has in fact used or had first hand experience with HGH, steroids etc please comment on the impact (positive or negative) on their golf game. Using books, other athletes and sports as a basis for some of the claims being made is speculation at best and is probably in fact closer to absolute rubbish.

For the record, I myself have not used them. I have however been around a number of people who have (that probably makes me guilty of using them as far as some are concerned) and one of my best friends uses them in competitive bodybuilding. He is a golfer who sits on maybe a 25 handicap which maybe isn't the ideal comparison. In no way did his cycles of using have any positive impact on his golf.

[archie_struthers]

 


In light research on visual improvement when on steroids  steroids /HGH it would appear that more than a few users report a definite improvement . It certainly would help putting in golfers if true.

[Ed Brzezowski]

As far as steroids I took them for a few months due to a back issue, I saw no difference in eyesight at all but did notice a difference in putting. There were times when my hands would shake and could not be controlled. Also any junk food in a one hundred yards radius was in danger.
Maybe they were a different formula from what others take but the only thing that got bigger was my waist size.

Dosage was 40 mg three times a day.

[Bart Bradley]

On what physiologic or anatomical basis are you suggesting these substances can improve vision?

Bart

[Nigel Islam]

As far as steroids I took them for a few months due to a back issue, I saw no difference in eyesight at all but did notice a difference in putting. There were times when my hands would shake and could not be controlled. Also any junk food in a one hundred yards radius was in danger.
Maybe they were a different formula from what others take but the only thing that got bigger was my waist size.

Dosage was 40 mg three times a day.

Ed, you didn't take anabolic steroids for your back, you took catabolic steroids. They are completely different animals. Prednisone will not help an athlete perform better. The medications these guys take are from the testosterone side of the mind boggling enzymatic steroid precursor chart. Actually, Prednisone causes weight gain, osteoporosis and cataracts if you take it too long. I would venture a guess that 99% of the general public have never taken the type of steroids these guys take. Unless you are a body builder or look like Gheorghe Muresan.

[Mike_Young]

As a "before" model for several men's health magazines and muscle mags I have had to take HGH for my job...but I can't tell if it helped my golf.   Now the thing they never discuss on the tour is how much "weed" helps their putting....I know a couple of senior tour guys that did very well on the regular tour for years playing stoned...   it will help your golf game more than the HGH for the average guy...

[Nigel Islam]

As a "before" model for several men's health magazines and muscle mags I have had to take HGH for my job...but I can't tell if it helped my golf.   Now the thing they never discuss on the tour is how much "weed" helps their putting....I know a couple of senior tour guys that did very well on the regular tour for years playing stoned...   it will help your golf game more than the HGH for the average guy...

LOL

[Jud_T]

Mike,

When weed is legal at the federal level, which seems inevitable once every politician sees the much needed tax revenues flowing in the trailblazing states and the old fart generation dies off, it'll be interesting to see how the tour deals with it.  

[Mike_Young]

Mike,

When weed is legal at the federal level, which seems inevitable once every politician sees the much needed tax revenues flowing in the trailblazing states and the old fart generation dies off, it'll be interesting to see how the tour deals with it.  

Just watch the Colorado tourney at Castlepines...

[Nigel Islam]

Mike,

When weed is legal at the federal level, which seems inevitable once every politician sees the much needed tax revenues flowing in the trailblazing states and the old fart generation dies off, it'll be interesting to see how the tour deals with it.  

Just watch the Colorado tourney at Castlepines...

It gives "playing at altitude" a whole new meaning I guess

[BCrosby]

Mike -

So there is an "after" picture?

Bob

[Adam Lawrence]

I inject HGH every night because my endocrine system doesn't work properly since I had a pituitary tumour removed. It hasn't had any noticeable impact on my golf. Though I suppose you could argue that, since I'm taking it to correct a deficiency, if I didn't do so, I'd be ever worse (I don't care for that thought!)

[Bryan Izatt]

Here is a short article from the Harvard Medical School about HGH. 

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mens_Health_Watch/2010/May/growth-hormone-athletic-performance-and-aging

The conclusion re doping for performance improvement:

After receiving daily injections for an average of 20 days, the subjects who received GH increased their lean body mass (which reflects muscle mass but can also include fluid mass) by an average of 4.6 pounds. That's a big gain — but it did not translate into improved performance. In fact, GH did not produce measurable increases in either strength or exercise capacity. And the subjects who got GH were more likely to retain fluid and experience fatigue than were the volunteers who got the placebo.

If you were a jock in high school or college, you're likely to wince at the memory of your coach barking "no pain, no gain" to spur you on. Today, athletes who use illegal performance-enhancing drugs risk the pain of disqualification without proof of gain.

[Nigel Islam]

Here is a short article from the Harvard Medical School about HGH. 

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Mens_Health_Watch/2010/May/growth-hormone-athletic-performance-and-aging

The conclusion re doping for performance improvement:

After receiving daily injections for an average of 20 days, the subjects who received GH increased their lean body mass (which reflects muscle mass but can also include fluid mass) by an average of 4.6 pounds. That's a big gain — but it did not translate into improved performance. In fact, GH did not produce measurable increases in either strength or exercise capacity. And the subjects who got GH were more likely to retain fluid and experience fatigue than were the volunteers who got the placebo.

If you were a jock in high school or college, you're likely to wince at the memory of your coach barking "no pain, no gain" to spur you on. Today, athletes who use illegal performance-enhancing drugs risk the pain of disqualification without proof of gain.

Bryan, I have often wondered about how much the junk really helps. I certainly think there is a placebo effect of invincibility, but obviously it changed baseball forever. One needs to look at Bonds as an Eric Davis type player with power and speed who became a literal Giant midway through his career. I think you have to say that steroids and HGH helped his home run numbers.

[Jim Nugent]

My (limited) understanding of PEDs is they don't build strength or speed by themselves, but allow you to work harder, more often, recover faster, and therefore get stronger, faster, etc.

If that's so, the study Bryan described probably missed the main point.  It didn't test for the major advantage PEDs give, and didn't allow enough time either. 

[Nigel Islam]

My (limited) understanding of PEDs is they don't build strength or speed by themselves, but allow you to work harder, more often, recover faster, and therefore get stronger, faster, etc.

If that's so, the study Bryan described probably missed the main point.  It didn't test for the major advantage PEDs give, and didn't allow enough time either. 

The other thing is that HGH is more associated with recovering from injury. That was the substance cited in Bryan's study. Danazol, Stanozozol, etc are what the body builders used. Thus the maximal effect is to use both in their primary purpose. I think Galea was more implicated with HGH whereas Victor Conti was using a series of steroid cycles.

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