[Jason Thurman]

Where are they?

Obviously there are places in Asia, Africa, Central America, and South America where golf is probably underdeveloped. But what about in North America, Europe, and Australia, or other places where the game already has established itself.

[Tom_Doak]

There are not many people in Africa or South America who can afford to play golf, so I'm not sure they really qualify as "underdeveloped".

As for "undersaturated," you have to think locally.  The most likely areas are around big cities, where there may not be enough public courses ... but where it's very difficult to develop a new course at the low price point desired.

[David_Tepper]

The market for public golf is very much under-served on the San Francisco Peninsula in San Mateo & Santa Clara Counties, which contain some of the most expensive real estate in the U.S. I doubt that situation will change in the coming years.

[Brian Ross]

Perhaps some of the boomtowns in areas associated with the rise of fracking. Places like western North Dakota, southern Saskatchewan and Alberta, NW Texas, etc. Not golf's perfect target audience by any means, but these are the places where the population is growing, unemployment is low and the golf supply is low to non-existent.

[BCowan]

Chile

[Brad Tufts]

New Orleans?

[Adam Clayman]

Nebraska may not qualify in demographic terms as undersaturated, but, considering the sand, and the ever changing winds, it's certainly undersaturated with golfers. The other day I looked at the 10 day forecast. Everyday the wind was over 10 mph and everyday it was going to blow from a different direction. If you value these intrinsic aspects of gca and the sport, there's few better areas. And just because the big name clubs close for the winter, doesn't mean golf isn't playable. The longest stretch we went without golfing, this polar vortexed winter, was 5 weeks.

[Jason Thurman]

Brad, New Orleans is a good one that I didn’t think of for some reason. I don’t know a ton about golf in the area, as I’ve only played at Metairie CC. Is there a real shortage of golf? Or just a shortage of high quality golf?

[Nigel Islam]

Louisville and Nashville could certainly use an influx of quality although the quantity is probably there.

[Kyle Casella]

I might be ignorant here, but what is the golf market like in and around Salt Lake / Park City area? Are there good course? A lot of them? I have flown in and out of there a number of times and never really spot any great looking courses from the plane. I know there are some resort developments in Park City / Deer Valley that must have courses, but are any of them really good?

[Jason Thurman]

Just to be clear, I'm not really interested in quality. I'm interested in the market saturation of golf. Quality might be a small component of that, but only if a community is almost entirely comprised of courses that we'd rank about a 1 or 2 on a scale from 1-10 and it has led to an artificially reduced level of interest in the game.

I suspect there will be a larger conclusion to draw from this conversation later, and maybe it's something that a lot of us have already known for a long time. But to gauge that, I first need to know if there are markets that are actually underserved with golf.

[Brad Tufts]

I would guess New Orleans would be a decent one for undersaturation of the market...while the golf courses are most certainly saturated.

I remember going there for a work conference (a couple years post-Katrina) and looking to play somewhere and there just weren't good public options.  We ended up at Money Hill north of the Lake, an hour away.

There was a Golf Digest article about this a while back...# of golfers in major cities v. # of public courses within a certain distance...there was a grand list of every city over 75,000 people and how "saturated" each market was.  I think Hoboken/Jersey City, NJ was #1 for "worst golf city"...but this is not surprising considering that area is hemmed in by more city/ocean/burbs.  I consider "worst" as meaning "unsaturated."

After I wrote all that...here we go... http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/golf-travel/2007-05/bestgolfcities0508

Top 5...Auburn/Opelika, AL....Johnson City/Bristol/Kingsport, TN/VA....Punta Gorda, FL...Youngstown/Warren, OH...Bloomington/Normal, IL

Bottom 5....Jersey City, NJ....NYC, NY...Bridgeport, CT...Anchorage, AK....Bergen/Passaic, NJ

Looks like they used # of golfers, # of courses, and weather.

[Joe Jemsek]

New Orleans has few golf courses but has even fewer golfers. My mother’s side of the family is there and I have spent some time there over the years Pre-Katrina (actually was there during Katrina) It had a very strong golf market of local public players, centered around City Park golf courses. But since Katrina many of the professionals (and anyone else who could) have left. The tourists don’t really seem to be golfers, they seem to conventioneers, foreigners, or drunks. Growing up it was a place where people could eat, drink and live well on the cheap, but now there are just too few places to live and feel safe.

Closed
Eastover 36 holes semi-private
Colonial CC 18
Brechtal Park 18
City Park was 63 holes now is 36 holes.

Close to City
Audubon & Bartholomew are short but highly enjoyable muni courses
TPC Louisiana has never been financially successful standard dye, but pricey
Belle Terre I heard it's back open after regrassing greens decent Pete Dye
I hear English Turn is suffering
Not sure about Lakewood (after large reno)

North of the Lake there are several Private/semi-private clubs which are surviving, but not thriving
Beau Chene CC - Oak course older joe lee remincent of Dick Wilson, Magnolia newer member joe lee
Tchefuncta CC - new reno, but very disjointed holes from 3 differnet decades
Convington CC - below average
Oak Knoll CC  - I hear a very interesting Bartholomew design
Carter Plantation - fun, but average David Toms course
Oak Harbor - Curely-Schmidt copying Pete Dye poorly 

[RJ_Daley]

Adams County, WI. Soon to be served. 

[Rees Milikin]

Louisville and Nashville could certainly use an influx of quality although the quantity is probably there.

Isn't that the truth.

[Adam Warren]

Louisville and Nashville could certainly use an influx of quality although the quantity is probably there.

Thirded.

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