[BCowan]

I don't know how or if re-zoning is possible, but 200-225 acres of farmland in Ohio is very very valuable.  The land looks very good in which the course sits on, just judging by photos.  The guy could use money from selling one course to do a great renovation and still keep it low key.  Would a great renovation get people driving 20-30 mins to play is the million dollar question.  I believe prior to 08' people would drive up to an hr to play a good course.  I emailed my farmer friend who maintains 800 acres and owns 400 acres.  He pays more in taxes than I make a year.  Housing seems like a poor idea in that part of Ohio

[Jason Thurman]

High quality farmland in Ohio is worth about $8000 per acre on the open market. Assuming they could collect full value, I'm not sure how far ~$800,000 from selling 18 holes would go on a renovation. I just don’t see much upside there. It’s a pretty small profit on the land acquisition cost, and that’s assuming they could even get full value which is a best-case scenario. Even selling the entire property for farm development only nets a $200,000 profit over initial investment at that peak price, and there's no way they could collect that much on the open market right now. Factor in a few years of running the course at a loss before such a hypothetical sale would occur, and it's pretty clear that they need to have a better plan in place than that.

Honestly, Weatherwax's golf courses aren't the problem - they're quite good and the market they serve isn’t looking for a GCA-significant renovation. I doubt any renovation would give as much ROI as a general improvement in turf conditioning would. But then, you need revenue to do things like improve turf conditions. Having spent some time at the facility, it's pretty no-frills. It's hard for me to believe that they'll be able to find a lot of costs to cut. I could be wrong about that, and maybe they're going broke by overpaying their grounds crew or something, but their problem appears to be falling rounds and lack of revenue. I don't see a low-budget renovation fixing that.

This just isn’t an easy fix, unfortunately. Weatherwax really represents the kind of golf value that one wouldn't expect to see struggling. It's a quality facility with inexpensive rates that basically has no other public-access competition in a town of 50,000 people smack in the middle of two of the state's largest metro areas. Hopefully it's just a product of a tough local economy and not indicative of wider trends about the kinds of courses that the market will support.

[JLahrman]

Honestly, Weatherwax's golf courses aren't the problem - they're quite good and the market they serve isn’t looking for a GCA-significant renovation. I doubt any renovation would give as much ROI as a general improvement in turf conditioning would. But then, you need revenue to do things like improve turf conditions. Having spent some time at the facility, it's pretty no-frills. It's hard for me to believe that they'll be able to find a lot of costs to cut. I could be wrong about that, and maybe they're going broke by overpaying their grounds crew or something, but their problem appears to be falling rounds and lack of revenue. I don't see a low-budget renovation fixing that.

I couldn't agree more. The courses are just fine the way they are (or at least were five years ago; I haven't played there since 2008). They could potentially raise rates somewhat as the greens fees are very affordable, and hope that they don't lose many rounds doing that. But every time I was there from 2005-2008, there just seemed to be noticeably fewer golfers at the course than there had been 5-10 years earlier. Course traffic has got to be the biggest problem, not the maintenance budget or the greens fee.

This just isn’t an easy fix, unfortunately. Weatherwax really represents the kind of golf value that one wouldn't expect to see struggling. It's a quality facility with inexpensive rates that basically has no other public-access competition in a town of 50,000 people smack in the middle of two of the state's largest metro areas. Hopefully it's just a product of a tough local economy and not indicative of wider trends about the kinds of courses that the market will support.

Again, totally agree. Perhaps it's too much in the middle of Cincinnati and Dayton, since those golfers can stay closer to home and not drive the 45 minutes to Weatherwax. But Weatherwax is very close to Middletown, Springboro, Trenton, Lebanon, Hamilton, even Oxford which doesn't have much other than Hueston Woods. There aren't that many other good options nearby. Maybe 36 holes is too much, but Weatherwax seems like the exact type of facility that the market SHOULD be able to support.

[BCowan]

''High quality farmland in Ohio is worth about $8000 per acre on the open market. Assuming they could collect full value, I'm not sure how far ~$800,000 from selling 18 holes would go on a renovation. I just don’t see much upside there. It’s a pretty small profit on the land acquisition cost, and that’s assuming they could even get full value which is a best-case scenario. Even selling the entire property for farm development only nets a $200,000 profit over initial investment at that peak price, and there's no way they could collect that much on the open market right now. Factor in a few years of running the course at a loss before such a hypothetical sale would occur, and it's pretty clear that they need to have a better plan in place than that.

Honestly, Weatherwax's golf courses aren't the problem - they're quite good and the market they serve isn’t looking for a GCA-significant renovation.''

   I just got off the phone with my farmer friend who farms outside of Dayton.  He said un-farmed land goes for $7,000 an acre and $8,000 for existing farm land.  So 200 acres sold at $7,000 an acre gives him $1.4 million.  How much of the 250 acres is cleared and farm-able? Assuming he wanted to put money into a renovation and make one course better.  I don't understand your land acquisition cost, the owner doesn't pay that, closing costs are rather small.  Re-zoning would be the highest cost IMO.  Farmland is very valuable with farm subsidies these days. A 700k- $1 Million dollar renovation by a jobless young archie could go a long way with in-house assistance from keepers staff.  I don't look at things through GCA eyes either. The fact he doesn't have a plan in place doesn't make sense.  His other route would be to cut costs even more and go more low end 36 hole track and get the leagues and $20 golfer to fill up his two courses (I have seen this be very successful).  He has options, and drawing from N Cinci burbs and S Dayton burbs if he improves the one course is an option i would think.  Does this guy own the two courses outright or is there a loan involved?  There are many variables and info missing to give a hard answer.  Glad the guy took the risk!  He definitely needs to spend money on advertising. 

[Tom Yost]

JLahrman - thanks for identifying the holes I pictured.

I'm not sure the course begs for any kind of renovation.  Despite the city's dire financial situation, the course was by no means neglected.  During my July visit, conditions were above average, tees, fairways, bunkers and greens all in very good condition.   The modest clubhouse is in good shape.  Obviously, I don't know anything about the state of the irrigation system or the maintenance equipment.

[Richard Hetzel]

If Weatherwax was closer to Cincinnati, it MIGHT make it. If it was in Dayton, it might make it. There is NOT a 36 hole public course in Cincinnati. Glenview has 27 and is not as nice as Weatherwax IMO. Kenton County has 54 holes, but the courses are terrible and across the river in Kentucky. I just don't see the traffic to pull in the rounds needed with the downturn in playing golf. If Weatherwax was closer to Cincinnati, I would play there. Time will tell and I hope they make it.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I have spoken with the owner.  He has leased out the operation for one year.  I got the feeling that after one year one or both of the courses will be closed unless something changes dramatically in the profit department.  I sense he purchased it for development into other uses.

Most golf courses are not profitable or barely turn a profit.  I suspect it is true of this course in the hometown of Jerry Lucas.

[BHoover]

Unfortunately, I think that Lynn's suspicion will prove correct.  These courses are doomed to development.  The new owner probably did not get into the business to run a golf course.  He's probably leasing out the operation for a year to secure the needed permits to begin commercial or residential development.  It's sad, but that's just the way the market works these days.

[JLahrman]

Unfortunately, I think that Lynn's suspicion will prove correct.  These courses are doomed to development.  The new owner probably did not get into the business to run a golf course.  He's probably leasing out the operation for a year to secure the needed permits to begin commercial or residential development.  It's sad, but that's just the way the market works these days.

He'd be crazy to not explore it, but Weatherwax is not in a particularly good location for commercial development. And residential development in a town where the population is shrinking wouldn't seem to be a great move either. Not sure what the best option will be if the course doesn't pan out...going down to 18 and incorporating residential development into the other half of the property with the close proximity of the course as a draw might be the best plan.

[Jason Thurman]

Am I being naïve to think he must have some kind of plan if he bid $400k above the appraised price? Am I underestimating the world population of stupid people and/or people who still don't use an auction draft in their fantasy league?

[BHoover]

Am I being naïve to think he must have some kind of plan if he bid $400k above the appraised price? Am I underestimating the world population of stupid people and/or people who still don't use an auction draft in their fantasy league?

You're not being naive.  I suspect that the buyer probably does have a plan.  But I doubt whether that plan involves the property being used for golf over the long-term.

[Tom Allen]

The identification of all the holes is all correct, by the way. Nice job.  No. 5 Valley View does not present a very difficult drive (although I have been in the left trees quite a few times), but the green is where all the action is.  Often, the shot is a short iron, but even then, it can be nearly impossible to hold the green.  And never an easy putt!  I played in a lot of charity outings there, and a birdie is a great score on that short straightish hole.

As far as staffing, I know that they were operating on a skeleton crew that last few years.  In my opinion, less population, a poor local economy even for those still left in the area, bad weather (a very wet spring last year limiting the number of playable days), a semi-remote location, and stiff competition from nearby courses (Yankee Trace, Walden Ponds, Heatherwood, Beckett Ridge, for example, driving the obtainable price per round down), made it impossible to be profitable after paying down debt service from the great bent-grass renovation.

I think once the leagues from AK Steel dried up (from 5,000 employees to about 1,600), it became just an issue of survival.  Less of an impact, but an impact nonetheless, is the presence of two private courses in town (Brown's Run and Wildwood).  Those two courses have had to offer some great deals to stay afloat themselves, and that skimmed even more people from potential players (who otherwise might have been playing Weatherwax [myself included]).

I would love to have purchased this course for sentimental reasons.  I grew up playing there, and I can see the writing on the wall.  I will have to play a few last rounds for good measure, and will take a lot of photos!

[Lou_Duran]

Less of an impact, but an impact nonetheless, is the presence of two private courses in town (Brown's Run and Wildwood).  Those two courses have had to offer some great deals to stay afloat themselves, and that skimmed even more people from potential players (who otherwise might have been playing Weatherwax [myself included]).

I would love to have purchased this course for sentimental reasons.  I grew up playing there, and I can see the writing on the wall.  I will have to play a few last rounds for good measure, and will take a lot of photos!

Can you describe the private courses and the deals they offer?

Sentimentality without deep pockets is a killer.  My home club has a well-to-do membership (avg. home price in the immediate area probably exceeds $500k, probably 2X the median price in the broader market).  Yet, the club has operated in the red since its founding, the members fully expecting its well-heeled owner to keep subsidizing their upscale lives.  Weatherwax needs a rich patrician golf enthusiast owner.  Is there such a person in the area?  Perhaps the pro/GM will find him before the new owner concludes that his property doesn't work as a golf course.

[JLahrman]

The identification of all the holes is all correct, by the way. Nice job.  No. 5 Valley View does not present a very difficult drive (although I have been in the left trees quite a few times), but the green is where all the action is.  Often, the shot is a short iron, but even then, it can be nearly impossible to hold the green.  And never an easy putt!  I played in a lot of charity outings there, and a birdie is a great score on that short straightish hole.

It's true, the back to front nature of the green makes it at least a little interesting. But there's nothing too interesting about the first two shots. It's a short hole but there is really nothing to be gained by hitting driver. It always just seemed like a long iron or fairway wood off the tee that didn't have to be very precise, followed by a pitching wedge. The only excitement came if you had a downhill putt.

As far as staffing, I know that they were operating on a skeleton crew that last few years.  In my opinion, less population, a poor local economy even for those still left in the area, bad weather (a very wet spring last year limiting the number of playable days), a semi-remote location, and stiff competition from nearby courses (Yankee Trace, Walden Ponds, Heatherwood, Beckett Ridge, for example, driving the obtainable price per round down), made it impossible to be profitable after paying down debt service from the great bent-grass renovation.

I think once the leagues from AK Steel dried up (from 5,000 employees to about 1,600), it became just an issue of survival.  Less of an impact, but an impact nonetheless, is the presence of two private courses in town (Brown's Run and Wildwood).  Those two courses have had to offer some great deals to stay afloat themselves, and that skimmed even more people from potential players (who otherwise might have been playing Weatherwax [myself included]).

I still don't think those courses would provide enough competition to put Weatherwax out of business IF the local economy were still good. The AK Steel relocation is what has really hurt Weatherwax.

Good for you if you joined Brown's Run AND got a nice deal to join. I only played there once but was really impressed by the course. Definitely seemed like it would probably be an affordable club, yet the course was challenging and interesting - one that I wouldn't get tired of playing.

[John Nixon]

Middletown hit its peak in the middle of the last century, Armco Steel, as it was known then, leading the way. I will be surprised if there's anything left of Weatherwax in a few years. And there's plenty of quality courses close enough to pull customers away from any attempts at recovery. I wish it weren't so.

[Lou_Duran]

Middletown hit its peak in the middle of the last century, Armco Steel, as it was known then, leading the way. I will be surprised if there's anything left of Weatherwax in a few years. And there's plenty of quality courses close enough to pull customers away from any attempts at recovery. I wish it weren't so.

The above speaks to the economic conditions of the area and the supply/demand factors facing the golf course.  The father of one of my roommates at The OSU (   ) during my freshman year (1970-71) owned a GM brand car dealership in Middletown.  It was a business run on very tight margins and only kept going through the entire family putting in a lot of sweat equity and living frugally.  The Ohio economy during this era was tough (Cleveland was dying, the Cuyahoga River made the national news for catching on fire) and, according to my roommate, Middletown was bringing down the averages.  With population loses, below average (OH) median income and home values, it doesn't sound like the city has righted its ship.

According to the article, the golf courses sit on 450 acres.  Though the new owner paid $1.6 Million, he also received a cart fleet with a lease residual value of $500k, and the resolution of an environmental problem which probably impacted the land well beyond the $30k the city paid to resolve it.  The bottom line is that the auctioneer owns 450 acres for around $1 Million, or about $2,220/acre.  Assuming that the one year lease is nominal, if the pro/manager can make it work, everybody is happy.  If not, it gives the auctioneer time to put his ducks in a row with minimal carrying costs.

My contacts dealing with farm land tell me that there is a huge demand for even marginal tracts, with prices often driven off the charts by local farmers competing to enlarge their properties (tremendous economies of scale in that business).  Based on the sales price, competing offers, and a cursory look at the Google Maps aerials of the site and surrounding properties, it seems clear that we are not talking about good farm land here.  

So, if it is not suitable for farming and there is little demand for upscale residential or commercial development, what is left?  Perhaps 10 to 20 ranchettes on half the property can get him his basis back and he still owns 18 holes with sufficient capacity and better economics to serve the available market.  Maybe a large state use such as a nursing home catering to Medicaid patients.  Ohio used to have great bird hunting before weather and new farming methods wiped out the pheasant population- a commercial hunting preserve countercyclical to the golf business?   I suspect that the auctioneer has something up his sleeve.

I hope Mr. Allen will keep us posted on how things develop.  Fighting economic trends is very difficult.    

[Jason Thurman]

Lou, the 450 acres refers to the course combined with neighboring Sebald Park, which has already been sold to Butler Metroparks. The course can't be much more than half of that acreage. The 36 holes are in there pretty tight.

However, your calling out that section of the article also led me to notice a misinterpretation I had made. The $1.2 million appraisal of the course ALSO included Sebald Park. Therefore, the appraised value of the course alone was likely quite a bit lower.

I thought he had paid $400,000 over appraisal. In reality, he probably paid far more than that.

[Lou_Duran]

Lou, the 450 acres refers to the course combined with neighboring Sebald Park, which has already been sold to Butler Metroparks. The course can't be much more than half of that acreage. The 36 holes are in there pretty tight.

However, your calling out that section of the article also led me to notice a misinterpretation I had made. The $1.2 million appraisal of the course ALSO included Sebald Park. Therefore, the appraised value of the course alone was likely quite a bit lower.

I thought he had paid $400,000 over appraisal. In reality, he probably paid far more than that.

You might be right, but if you read the article again, my interpretation of the following coupled with the size of Sebald (352 acres per its website) lead me to believe that some of the wooded areas around both are part the properties.  A crude scaled measurement of just the cleared golf areas suggests at least 250 acres.  If the Sebald site is 352 acres, it seems reasonable to conclude that the 450 acres cited in the article pertains to the golf course property only (and it would be more grammatically correct, I think).

"An appraisal performed in 2012 valued the 450-acre, 36-hole golf course and neighboring Sebald Park at $1.2 million, but since then, Sebald has been sold to Butler Metroparks."

As to the appraisal, having reviewed a few hundred, literally, I wouldn't place much importance on what it says.  But even if it does reflect an accurate value, it certainly would not have included the ownership of the carts (at most, if the appraiser was a bit sophisticated, he may have attributed some value to the personal property and leases, but the latter is likely to be relatively nominal, or perhaps negative if it presented an obligation beyond what profits the carts generated).  As to the value of the park land, maybe Mr. Allen can tell us what the city got for it, but I'd bet the appraiser didn't attach much to it- remember it is a public park, a drain on government resources, and a very difficult political problem if the city or the county would attempt to convert to another use.

If you want to believe that the auctioneer is "stupid", it is your prerogative.  Having lived in Ohio during some difficult times over 40 years ago, I would think that the population of dumbasses with money has been pretty much wiped out by now.  Alternatively, he may be sharp guy with a different vision for the property than the rest of that market saw, and betting $1 Million might not be a bad way to have some relatively low-risk fun trying to realize it.  Or maybe he wants to contribute to the community.  Who knows.  I only wish him and his Head Pro/GM/Lessee great luck.  It's good to see people who put money and effort where their mouth is. 

[Tom Allen]

Less of an impact, but an impact nonetheless, is the presence of two private courses in town (Brown's Run and Wildwood).  Those two courses have had to offer some great deals to stay afloat themselves, and that skimmed even more people from potential players (who otherwise might have been playing Weatherwax [myself included]).

I would love to have purchased this course for sentimental reasons.  I grew up playing there, and I can see the writing on the wall.  I will have to play a few last rounds for good measure, and will take a lot of photos!

Can you describe the private courses and the deals they offer?

Sentimentality without deep pockets is a killer.  My home club has a well-to-do membership (avg. home price in the immediate area probably exceeds $500k, probably 2X the median price in the broader market).  Yet, the club has operated in the red since its founding, the members fully expecting its well-heeled owner to keep subsidizing their upscale lives.  Weatherwax needs a rich patrician golf enthusiast owner.  Is there such a person in the area?  Perhaps the pro/GM will find him before the new owner concludes that his property doesn't work as a golf course.

A single golf membership for new members at Brown's Run is $225 per month, much less than what I was paying as an existing member.
At Wildwood, an annual single golfer membership is $1895, so less than $200 per month.  Those are just the two in Middletown, which are probably less than 10 miles away each.  I wish there were a local rich golf addict to save it, but no one has come out the of the woods yet.  (Plus, I am not familiar with anyone that meets those criteria, and I have lived here all my life.)

As far as the land goes, I am 99% sure all of the land was donated to the City (perhaps the Sebald family, or Weatherwax family?)  I had always assumed that there were restrictive covenants on the property preventing it from being sold or used as anything else, but it looks like that assumption was wrong.

[noonan]

Less of an impact, but an impact nonetheless, is the presence of two private courses in town (Brown's Run and Wildwood).  Those two courses have had to offer some great deals to stay afloat themselves, and that skimmed even more people from potential players (who otherwise might have been playing Weatherwax [myself included]).

I would love to have purchased this course for sentimental reasons.  I grew up playing there, and I can see the writing on the wall.  I will have to play a few last rounds for good measure, and will take a lot of photos!

Can you describe the private courses and the deals they offer?

Sentimentality without deep pockets is a killer.  My home club has a well-to-do membership (avg. home price in the immediate area probably exceeds $500k, probably 2X the median price in the broader market).  Yet, the club has operated in the red since its founding, the members fully expecting its well-heeled owner to keep subsidizing their upscale lives.  Weatherwax needs a rich patrician golf enthusiast owner.  Is there such a person in the area?  Perhaps the pro/GM will find him before the new owner concludes that his property doesn't work as a golf course.

A single golf membership for new members at Brown's Run is $225 per month, much less than what I was paying as an existing member.
At Wildwood, an annual single golfer membership is $1895, so less than $200 per month.  Those are just the two in Middletown, which are probably less than 10 miles away each.  I wish there were a local rich golf addict to save it, but no one has come out the of the woods yet.  (Plus, I am not familiar with anyone that meets those criteria, and I have lived here all my life.)

As far as the land goes, I am 99% sure all of the land was donated to the City (perhaps the Sebald family, or Weatherwax family?)  I had always assumed that there were restrictive covenants on the property preventing it from being sold or used as anything else, but it looks like that assumption was wrong.

Wildwood is a fun course. Weatherwax is a slog - not scenic and not really fun. Out of the 36 holes there my be 5 memorable holes in the entire complex. I played Wildwood about 15 times and I think I can describe every hole on the course 20 years later.

[BCowan]

With Brown Run and Wildwood in the same area of 50k people, I don't see weatherwax as a good option anymore.  The guy has got to be doing something else with the land for sure.  Do you see Wildwood going semi-private?

[Tom Yost]

Wildwood has been accepting limited public play for several years now.

[Richard Hetzel]

I think both Brown's Run CC and Wildwood CC are both accepting limited public play now a days. I need to get up there and play those two this summer. I just think the biggest thing hurting Weatherwax is it's location, it's not cpnvenient to those who do live in Middletown. If it was closer to I-75 it would fare much better.

Just out of curiosity, can golf courses be re-designated as farm land? Then maybe the owner could get government subsidies for "not farming the land" which many farmers receive. Pigeon Creek GC up in northern Michigan is such a course that does this.

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