News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Riviera #6
« on: February 15, 2014, 03:58:18 PM »
I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but are there other examples of greens like the 6th at Riviera? What i mean is, are there other examples of an architect putting a bunker in the middle of a green?  I seem to recall seeing one at Castle Pines back when the Tour played The International. I've personally never played a green with a bunker in the middle of it. How common is this?

On another note, is Riviera the best course on Tour (that isn't called Pebble Beach)?
Logged

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 04:01:14 PM »
Bonus hole at Forrest Dunes has such a bunker.  I am sure the Dismal crowd will tell you about their version. 

B
Logged

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 04:03:09 PM »
Come to the 5th Major and you can see a bunker in the middle of a green at Bayside and Dismal. Riviera in the condition you see this week is the best course in the U.S.A., period.
Logged

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 04:57:55 PM »
Adams Mountain CC in Eagle CO, designed by Weiskof, has a bunker in the middle of a green on a par 5.

Riviera is absolutely fantastic...my favorite regular Tour stop of the year.
Logged
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

Bill McKinley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 08:38:19 PM »
Other than those mentioned, the 15th hole at LACC north (also designed by GC Thomas) was thought to have had a small bunker in the middle of the green at some point in the early stages of the course's life. I believe they're are photos or drawings showing this and during the big Hanse reno, there was a thought of bringing it back, but they decided against it.
Logged
2016 Highlights:  Streamsong Blue (3/17); Streamsong Red (3/17); Charles River Club (5/16); The Country Club - Brookline (5/17); Myopia Hunt Club (5/17); Fishers Island Club (5/18); Aronomink GC (10/16); Pine Valley GC (10/17); Somerset Hills CC (10/18)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2014, 08:53:50 PM »
Quote from: Brian Hoover on February 15, 2014, 03:58:18 PM
I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but are there other examples of greens like the 6th at Riviera? What i mean is, are there other examples of an architect putting a bunker in the middle of a green?  I seem to recall seeing one at Castle Pines back when the Tour played The International. I've personally never played a green with a bunker in the middle of it. How common is this?


Trump just bought one....
Logged
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2014, 09:15:30 PM »
Quote from: Bill McKinley on February 15, 2014, 08:38:19 PM
Other than those mentioned, the 15th hole at LACC north (also designed by GC Thomas) was thought to have had a small bunker in the middle of the green at some point in the early stages of the course's life. I believe they're are photos or drawings showing this and during the big Hanse reno, there was a thought of bringing it back, but they decided against it.

Bill,

LACC published a chronicle of the restoration/renovation, but, I can't find my copy.
Did they mention it in that publication ?
Logged

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2014, 01:10:27 AM »
Yes, the history of the "15th hole bump" is described on page 24 of the Commemorative Edition.
Logged
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2014, 05:14:22 AM »
The new TPC course where they play the Texas Open has one.

I don't think the hole at Castle Pines (#7?) is - maybe it was at one time, but it isn't now. The green kind of does a horseshoe around a bunker, but the other side is just fairway.

Logged
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Bryan Icenhower

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2014, 05:24:54 AM »
Quote from: Matthew Rose on February 16, 2014, 05:14:22 AM
The new TPC course where they play the Texas Open has one.

I don't think the hole at Castle Pines (#7?) is - maybe it was at one time, but it isn't now. The green kind of does a horseshoe around a bunker, but the other side is just fairway.


par 3 16th at TPC San Antonio - AT&T Oaks Course
Logged

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2014, 08:41:01 AM »
In the history book on Riviera, which is well authored, several "pundits" were asked to weigh in.  I believe it is Ron Whitten who wrote that even without the bunker, the green would be unique and still a fascinating study.  It just seems you can get to the hole from about everywhere.
Logged
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2014, 09:01:49 AM »
I just built a green with a bunker inside it, for the 2nd green at Tara Iti in New Zealand. 

It was a fairly plain par-3 hole up at the high end of the property and really needed something to make it stand out.  The original version had a bunker at the back of the green and I started to drag it into the green to separate the left and right sections, but was concerned that if you missed back left with the hole cut back right, it would be a long way to putt around the bunker.  So we separated the bunker and connected green around the back, to give you a chance to putt to the hole.

It was only then that I started thinking about whether I could sell it to the client, and remembered that he is not only a member of Riviera, but that he owns that big house behind #6 green!  So it was not a hard sell.

It is not a feature that will work well on very many courses.  You try your best to contour the green so that players are unlikely to be totally stymied by the bunker, but inevitably some will ... so it's better to use it on a course with limited play, and one where you trust your guests not to take the "Billy Casper approach" when stymied.
Logged

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2014, 09:35:00 AM »
One of Jerry Pate's first design efforts, Tiger Point just east of Pensacola, had a bunker in the middle of the 13th green, a good par 5 with a diagonal creek in the second landing zone.  I don't know Jerry put it there in appreciation of Riviera's sixth green, perhaps because he played well there or just liked it.   I'll ask him next time I see him.

It was not designed nearly as cleverly as Riviera 6, you couldn't putt around it from almost anywhere.  But it was at the end of a 520 yard par 5, so greater accuracy with a short approach could be expected I guess.  

The bunker is now NLE, removed during the most recent renovation. 
Logged

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2014, 10:39:39 PM »
Olympic Clubs Cliffs course has a double green with a bunker in the middle for the 5th and 7th holes. Ultra cool. Somehow I completely missed it on 5 and realized it on 7. ???
Logged

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2014, 11:44:08 PM »
Quote from: Matthew Rose on February 16, 2014, 05:14:22 AM
The new TPC course where they play the Texas Open has one.

I don't think the hole at Castle Pines (#7?) is - maybe it was at one time, but it isn't now. The green kind of does a horseshoe around a bunker, but the other side is just fairway.



You're correct, Matthew, it is #7 at Castle Pines, and the green is a horseshoe around a front pot bunker. It is not and never has been green all the way around.
Logged

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2014, 06:39:58 PM »
Quote from: Bill_McBride on February 16, 2014, 09:35:00 AM
One of Jerry Pate's first design efforts, Tiger Point just east of Pensacola, had a bunker in the middle of the 13th green, a good par 5 with a diagonal creek in the second landing zone.  I don't know Jerry put it there in appreciation of Riviera's sixth green, perhaps because he played well there or just liked it.   I'll ask him next time I see him.

It was not designed nearly as cleverly as Riviera 6, you couldn't putt around it from almost anywhere.  But it was at the end of a 520 yard par 5, so greater accuracy with a short approach could be expected I guess.  

The bunker is now NLE, removed during the most recent renovation.  

I ran into Jerry at the club yesterday and asked him about his inspiration for the bunker in the green at Tiger Point.  "Riviera #6,” he says.  It was his favorite course on tour and he loved the idea.

He's pissed off the current owner filled it in.  
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 08:58:11 AM by Bill_McBride »
Logged

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2014, 08:40:20 PM »
Either 11 or 12 at Hualai (sp)where the 4 Seasons is
Logged

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2014, 01:05:22 AM »
I think the 6th at Rivera was quite a more difficult hole in in 1975 than now, the green has been extended by a bit since then. I aced the hole in that year for a very expensive hole in one party at the club,

Bob
 
Logged

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2014, 10:54:39 AM »
Quote from: Bob_Huntley on March 01, 2014, 01:05:22 AM
I think the 6th at Rivera was quite a more difficult hole in in 1975 than now, the green has been extended by a bit since then. I aced the hole in that year for a very expensive hole in one party at the club,

Bob
 

I've just thought of a great subject for a new thread; Famous par 3's Bob Huntley hasn't' aced, although I doubt it will get much of a response! Has the statute of limitations run out, or can we demand a free beverage at our next encounter?
Logged
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2023, 01:37:31 PM »
So... after a lot of thought and a visit to Riviera, another green with a bunker inside will be built.


Riviera #6 is an astonishing hole and you can reasonable putt from/to anywhere in the green. I loved it. Lots of fun.


So, green light to the last hole commencing construction at El Desafio, #13. Downhill par 3, 137 yards over a tiny creek. Nice natural slope at the back should allow the same effect than #6 at Riviera, with minimum shaping. The green is naturally sitting there.


Will be fun to see it completed (next season)


52ffdc07-2c4b-4887-92d8-2d78ca1f84f4 by M C, on Flickr


IMG_0032 by M C, on Flickr

Logged

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2023, 05:17:26 PM »
Black Desert in the St. George area has one. The one time I played it, I happened to be paired with one of the owners. After my tee shot ended up on the wrong side of the bunker, there was no way to get anywhere near the hole without chipping/pitching over the bunker. I said to the owner, 'if I wasn't playing with an owner, I'd chip it, so I don't want to be a hypocrite.' I chipped it to about 6 ft. Didn't take a divot, just scuffed the grass only slightly. I said to him, 'seems like that bunker could be an issue for the upkeep of the course though.'
Is there an alternate route to get close besides chipping on most holes with a bunker on it? The way the contours were on this hole, the closest I could have gotten putting was maybe 60 feet.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2023, 05:19:01 PM by astavrides »
Logged

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2023, 07:23:29 PM »
Quote from: astavrides on November 23, 2023, 05:17:26 PM
I said to the owner, 'if I wasn't playing with an owner, I'd chip it, so I don't want to be a hypocrite.' I chipped it to about 6 ft.


LOL. That's a good one.
Logged

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2023, 09:30:52 AM »
The par five 13th at the European Club has a bunker in the green.
Logged
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2023, 10:27:42 AM »
Doonbeg's 12th




Logged
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Riviera #6
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2023, 04:03:46 PM »
I've been surprised how few people really comment on the bunker in the 2nd green at Tara Iti -- or on the crossover of the 3rd and 5th holes, for that matter.  You'd think such features would get a mention, but it seems most people are just in a happy buzz when they finish and not too concerned with the details.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back