Olympic Ocean on Doak Scale

[Evan_Green]

I know Doak rated Olympic Ocean as a "4" in his Confidential Guide book dated 1996- I'm wondering what people think the course should be rated now after the major renovations ending in 2000. If you are reading this Tom, I would most like to know what you think.


Thank you

[Joel_Stewart]

Evan:
Tom was probably right on the old Ocean course.  I can tell you that Gib and I personally took Tom and his son out on the new Ocean course maybe 2-3 years ago?  We did not play and he didn't see all of the holes so I don't think he could make a judgement.

[Mike_Cirba]

Evan;

I think it's moved up to a Doak Scale 6, at best, probably a 5.5.  Some nice holes, but the transitions between the sometimes steep elevation changes are often ungainly and awkward, and a few holes are strangely configured between terrain and shot requirements.  

[Bill_McBride]

My impression last March, which I shared with my host who didn't disagree, is that the course appears to have been designed by several architects, or maybe one architect who split up the shaping, bunker design, etc among three or four different crews.  There is a disconnect between some of the holes and others, particularly in the stretch around 12-15 (not sure of the holes precisely).  The church pew bunkers were completely out of character with the rest of the bunkering, and there was a very nice set of bunkers in the hill to the left of the previous hole which looked like you should have been asked to carry or go around them and they weren't in the line of fire at all.  

I rather enjoyed some of the awkward transitions, particularly the drop shot par 3 (#6?) and the tunnel which followed.  The holes over by the Lake Course look a lot  more like the Lake than the Ocean.

Having said all that, it was a fun layout and there's nothing more fun than playing in that brisk San Francisco air.  I'd play it again tomorrow for sure.

[Mike Benham]

My impression last March, which I shared with my host who didn't disagree, is that the course appears to have been designed by several architects, or maybe one architect who split up the shaping, bunker design, etc among three or four different crews.  There is a disconnect between some of the holes and others, particularly in the stretch around 12-15 (not sure of the holes precisely).  The church pew bunkers were completely out of character with the rest of the bunkering, and there was a very nice set of bunkers in the hill to the left of the previous hole which looked like you should have been asked to carry or go around them and they weren't in the line of fire at all.  

I rather enjoyed some of the awkward transitions, particularly the drop shot par 3 (#6?) and the tunnel which followed.  The holes over by the Lake Course look a lot  more like the Lake than the Ocean.

Having said all that, it was a fun layout and there's nothing more fun than playing in that brisk San Francisco air.  I'd play it again tomorrow for sure.

Bill -

As a regular to the OCO, I agree 100% with your impression.  I do not share your enthusiasm for the drop shot par-3 (#5) and the hole preceeding the church pwe bunker hole has a green that would fit in nicely at Pinehurst #2, being a table top green with no bunkers and shaved collars and rough.

I would think it ranks no more than a 5 on the Doak scale ...

Mike

[Bill_McBride]

Mike, I think we're thinking about the same hole (right before the church pews) - it's a beautiful hole, I just thought the bunkers on the left hillside were misplaced.  A beautiful set of bunkers, just not in the right place to affect play on the hole. And I still like that drop shot, it's one of the few greens I hit in regulation!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think you guys are hitting right on the money. I find the Ocean course to be a fun enjoyable test of golf. It does not pretend to be a championship layout. There are some ackward holes but all in a good solid fun golf. I always enjoy playing there.

[Mike Benham]

Mike, I think we're thinking about the same hole (right before the church pews) - it's a beautiful hole, I just thought the bunkers on the left hillside were misplaced.  A beautiful set of bunkers, just not in the right place to affect play on the hole. And I still like that drop shot, it's one of the few greens I hit in regulation!

Yes, the 12th ... it's not just the bunkering but the manufactured dunes (mounding) separating the left side of the hole with Church Pew hole and even the mounding on the right side, giving a bowling effect on the hole ...

[Bill_McBride]

The one thing I really missed that day we played the Ocean course (the day before KP at Pasatiempo, a good warm up!) was an opportunity to play the short course.  It started raining as we putted out on #18, and we headed directly to the bar.  We had decided to play once around the short course but weather did not permit.  What a little beauty that is, and a great collection of very solid holes.  Next time........

[Evan_Green]

Tiger- I am wondering if you have tried the Ocean course from the Black (#1) tees- it is a very difficult course in its own right - over 6900 yds- which plays very long given its often damp seaside location-- it is rated only one third of a shot easier than the Lake (73.5 vs lakes 73. with both against a par of 71. I would agree than from the #2 tees it is a fun, although not overly demanding course- however go back to the Black tees and it is significanly more difficult, especially on holes 1,3,4,11,15 and 17. Also the wind comes into play a lot more on the Ocean - especially the back nine than the Lake-I personally think the course is worthy of a 5 or 6 rating

Clearly though it is no match to the Lake in terms of the quality of the course.

[Mike Benham]

...which plays very long given its often damp seaside location

You will be happy to know that both Olympic courses have been firmed up over the past 12-months.  The new superintendent plans on keeping it that way ... of course, mother nature may have something to do with it over the winter months ...

[ed_getka]

I have seen both the Ocean course and the Cliffs course, although have not played either. I would rather play out on the Cliffs course based on what I saw there anytime.

When I walked the Ocean with a grounds crew member and got the hole by hole story its no wonder the holes don't seem to fit together. There definitely was NOT a cohesive plan in place when that course was worked on (maybe on paper, but not in the dirt).

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Evan, I think I have played it from the back once. I pretty much play from where Gib/gyro wants to play. I actually do not look at a course from onlyy where i play from. I tend to look at the differnet tees to get a feel for the quality of work doen to let different abilities play the course roughly the same way after the tee shot. My comment about championship is directed more to the flow of a few holes and the lack of cohesiveness on certain parts of the course. The wetness is somewhat common and length is there from a distance point of view.