[Jason Thurman]

This thread is a lose, lose situation. Nobody will gain from this. It will just stir up a heap of trouble.

Pebble Beach, Erin Hills, and Augusta definitely belong. In the case of Augusta though, I don't really see people who have played it and don't like it. I just see haters who are mad because they'll never get to play it themselves.

I don't think people not getting to play ANGC has much if anything to do with it taking critisism on GCA. The critisism results from the myriad changes that have been enacted over the years in an effort to keep the Tooniment relevant.

I know that's the argument, Tim. But I don't buy it. I think the majority of the guys who criticize the changes at Augusta without having played it would become literal access whores if they thought it would get them a round there.

[Mark Chaplin]

Wentworth West - too difficult, no Colt left
Princes - individually good holes that are unmemorable together
Hankley Common - flat greens
The Castle Course - sooner play TOC
Gleneagles Nicklaus - why go to Gleneagles to play US golf
The Belfry - a field

The comments aren't my opinion, I've played all except for The Castle. Wentworth is a competition course now, Princes is like Troon to Prestwick, a very good course that lacks charm. I'm a massive Hankley fan, the Nicklaus course is out of context and finally The Belfry is in the hearts of European golfers as the scene of some great matches and memories.

[Tim Martin]

This thread is a lose, lose situation. Nobody will gain from this. It will just stir up a heap of trouble.

Pebble Beach, Erin Hills, and Augusta definitely belong. In the case of Augusta though, I don't really see people who have played it and don't like it. I just see haters who are mad because they'll never get to play it themselves.

I don't think people not getting to play ANGC has much if anything to do with it taking critisism on GCA. The critisism results from the myriad changes that have been enacted over the years in an effort to keep the Tooniment relevant.

I know that's the argument, Tim. But I don't buy it. I think the majority of the guys who criticize the changes at Augusta without having played it would become literal access whores if they thought it would get them a round there.

You got a lot to learn about being an access whore.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Jason, so you're saying no one should play a course they criticize?

[Kyle Casella]

Maybe this will turn into a "courses it's not cool to like, but actually it's kinda cool to like," thread, thus ushering in a new era of cult courses? All kidding aside, of courses that I enjoy and would happily play again: Bel-Air, Olympic, and Loch Lomond are a few that come to mind.

[Joey Chase]

  It seems to me that the popular opinion is to be dismissive of the work by RTJ and is the prevalent opinion on this site.  Jones almost, by his own self promotion, brought forth the golf course architect as an important factor in the courses people seek out.  For many on this site, he is considered a pariah, unfortunately.  If you were to poll the greater golfing population, the best known golf course architect is RTJ, if for no other reason than that they know the name.   I absolutely love some of his better works and am sorry to hear people dismiss the work without a visit based on someone's opinion.  It could be good or bad, be it a Jones course or a Coore/Crenshaw course.

[Nigel Islam]

Maybe this will turn into a "courses it's not cool to like, but actually it's kinda cool to like," thread, thus ushering in a new era of cult courses? All kidding aside, of courses that I enjoy and would happily play again: Bel-Air, Olympic, and Loch Lomond are a few that come to mind.

Kyle that is exactly what I was going for.

[Bill_McBride]

I don't get this thread.  Pebble Beach and Oakmont are two of the best courses I've ever played.

[Nigel Islam]

I don't get this thread.  Pebble Beach and Oakmont are two of the best courses I've ever played.

Bill me too. My point is they both get a lot of hits here for a variety of reasons. Pebble costs too much, Oakmont is too hard. Both valid points, but I think sometimes we forget how great those courses really are, warts and all. I was just asking for a list. Ugh, I think I took too much cold medicine today, and I never should have picked up the ipad

[Bill_McBride]

I don't get this thread.  Pebble Beach and Oakmont are two of the best courses I've ever played.

Bill me too. My point is they both get a lot of hits here for a variety of reasons. Pebble costs too much, Oakmont is too hard. Both valid points, but I think sometimes we forget how great those courses really are, warts and all. I was just asking for a list. Ugh, I think I took too much cold medicine today, and I never should have picked up the ipad

Step away from the keyboard!

[Cliff Hamm]

Baltusrol - lower has fallen so much that it is not even mentioned on this thread, despite often being disparaged.

[Jim Tang]

Doonbeg.  Personally, I really enjoyed the two rounds I played there.

[Alex Miller]

Sandpiper

[Nigel Islam]

I don't get this thread.  Pebble Beach and Oakmont are two of the best courses I've ever played.

Bill me too. My point is they both get a lot of hits here for a variety of reasons. Pebble costs too much, Oakmont is too hard. Both valid points, but I think sometimes we forget how great those courses really are, warts and all. I was just asking for a list. Ugh, I think I took too much cold medicine today, and I never should have picked up the ipad

Step away from the keyboard!

No kidding!

[hhuffines]

CCNC Dogwood

[Mark Bourgeois]

I don't get this thread.  Pebble Beach and Oakmont are two of the best courses I've ever played.

I can help you with this, Bill. Although started undoubtedly with the best of intentions, this thread is being used as an opportunity to troll anyone who criticized a course appearing on a magazine list. The troll formula in this case is to misrepresent earlier criticisms as tantamount to blanket condemnation of the entire course, such that the course is of "dog track" quality.

Take the specific and misrepresent it as the general, an application of "slander by synecdoche." Or would that be libel? I digress.

So for example if someone criticizes the 17th at Pebble for being a shell of the original, or if someone thinks the current Masters flog course represents an abrogation of the design philosophies of Bob Jones and Alister Mackenzie, or someone doesn't like Rees's work at Bethpage, then that gets misrepresented as "Haters trash the course." More or less.

Credit to Tim Martin for repping the actual criticisms.

[Ryan Coles]

Wentworth West - too difficult, no Colt left
Princes - individually good holes that are unmemorable together
Hankley Common - flat greens
The Castle Course - sooner play TOC
Gleneagles Nicklaus - why go to Gleneagles to play US golf
The Belfry - a field

The comments aren't my opinion, I've played all except for The Castle. Wentworth is a competition course now, Princes is like Troon to Prestwick, a very good course that lacks charm. I'm a massive Hankley fan, the Nicklaus course is out of context and finally The Belfry is in the hearts of European golfers as the scene of some great matches and memories.

An interesting list which brings up conflicting emotions.

Wentworth West - Ruined and ruined long before Ernie Els.

Princes - Extremely underwhelming and visually very bleak. Nice foyer and history display, didn't enjoy the rest of it.

Hankley Common - stunned that anyone couldn't not like it. Beatiful setting, great par 3's and just such a nice walk. Not played Walton Heath but can english golf get better away from the sea?

Castle Course. Loved it. Interesting and different. As a blank canvas, not that different to Fairmont Courses I would imagine. Great design makes it head and shoulders better. I think lots must turn up expecting or even wanting to hate it for daring to be new and expensive and not the Old Course. It is great fun in a lovely setting and presents so many options.

One course that goes the other way with most seeming to love it was Carne. Played it in 2006, drove over miles of Peat bogs to get there, wanted to love it, but it was really disappointing for me. Enniscrone stole that trip and can't wait to return this year.

The Belfry, I liken as the golf course equivalent of Stephen Fry who I heard described as 'the stupid persons idea of what an intelligent person is'. The Belfry is the stupid persons idea of a top golf course.

[Jason Thurman]

Jason, so you're saying no one should play a course they criticize?

No. That's not what I'm saying. 

[Mark Saltzman]

The Bridge has to fit in to this category.  

This will change in time , if it hasn't already.

[Charlie_Bell]

Trump National at Myrtle Village

[jonathan_becker]

The Bridge has to fit in to this category.  

This will change in time , if it hasn't already.

Agreed.  From what I saw this fall it's only getting better with the changes.  I really enjoyed it

[Wyatt Halliday]

CCNC Dogwood

I'm don't know if it's "cool" to not like this course, but it should be.

[jeffwarne]

I don't get this thread.  Pebble Beach and Oakmont are two of the best courses I've ever played.

The part I don't get is that I thought Oakmont was GCA cool
Which explains why I'm never cool

[Wyatt Halliday]

I don't get this thread.  Pebble Beach and Oakmont are two of the best courses I've ever played.

The part I don't get is that I thought Oakmont was GCA cool
Which explains why I'm never cool

Bullshit

You're one of the coolest people I've ever met.

[Tim Leahy]

Any course by Ted Robinson or with an artificial waterfall.
Oh and any course with cart paths.

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