[Rob Curtiss]

I am sure this has been covered before , but if some one could answer a question.

Is Sand Hills really that much better than Dismal?

I have never played either course , probably will never play Sand Hills, but am playing Dismal at this coming years 5th Major.
I have noticed in Golf Digest that Sand Hills is #9 and Dismal is # 198.
In Golf week Sand hills is #1 or #2 for modern courses and Dismal is not even ranked.
I know rankings are not everything and that is why I wondered if someone from GCA could give me thier opinion.
I mean they are within 7 miles or so of each other, they both should have similar terrain and vistas.
They both have great designers.
Is it because Sand hills was there first ( even though that shouldnt matter )
I assume they are somewhat similar.
Do you have to see them to see the difference?
I know that Shinnecock and National Golf Links are in the same area and are always compared , but thier rankings are only a few spots apart.
Same with Olympic and the San francisco club--only maybe 10 spots apart or so.
Even Pebble and Cypress are only a few spots apart.

So i just hoped that someone could put some perspective into what makes Sand Hills so much better than Dismal.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Well, this should be interesting...

I guess to start, are you referring to Dismal Nicklaus or Dismal Doak?

[Rob Curtiss]

Dismal Nicklaus- only because it has been out long enough to be ranked.

I hear the Doak course is better.

[Scott Szabo]

Sand Hills deserves it's lofty stature, it's that good.  I can't comment on DR as I haven't been there yet.

[Josh_Mahar]

Yes.  End of discussion.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Sand Hilis is awesome!
Dismal River   Both awesome!
There seems to be an inability to fairly judge the Nicklaus course due to biases against his other courses.  Yes a few holes were changed, but an attempt for greatness will occassionally result in a few misses--these were improved.  There are a couple of par 3's that don't wet some people's appetite, but they happen to be really fun and intersting holes.  Played a few times with an open mind, and these can become favorites.  The par 5's are brilliant with risk/reward and emphasis on angle of attack.
The Red course will probably recieve super high rankings among GCA members since there seems to be an unadultereted lovefest for his work.  I happen to love his courses, but will not rate other new courses below simply because they are not Doak--I prefere Laurel Links and epecially Friars Head, and Atlantic to Sebonac.  I think I began a thread stating the Red may be the best course in the world--it certainly should receive consideration along with Ballyneal and Sand Hills.

[Rob Curtiss]

Thanks Robert for the info.

Getting really excited to play Dismal now ( not that I wasnt before ) .

fingers crossed that I will be playing Ballyneal right around the 5th major as well- if schedules work out

[Garland Bayley]

Ran was ecstatic about Sand Hills. He hasn't profiled Dismal River, and doesn't have it in his next fifty. What does that tell you?

[Rob Curtiss]

are you trying to bust my bubble?  haha


but you are right!

[Mac Plumart]

Ran was ecstatic about Sand Hills. He hasn't profiled Dismal River, and doesn't have it in his next fifty. What does that tell you?

Tells me he hasn't been there.

[Garland Bayley]

Ran was ecstatic about Sand Hills. He hasn't profiled Dismal River, and doesn't have it in his next fifty. What does that tell you?

Tells me he hasn't been there.

Tells me that his network of experts haven't created enough buzz to get him to want to go there.

[Mac Plumart]

When's the last time you talked to him about it, GJ?

[Mac Plumart]

Have you been to the Sandhills of NE, GJ?

[Jason Thurman]

Ran also hasn't profiled Merion, nor does he have it in his Next Fifty. I guess that means it's worse than Wakonda.

[Eric Smith]

Rob,

I'm glad you and your dad are planning to make it out next summer and hope that you guys have a great time. I think that you will, irregardless of where the Nicklaus course is ranked or whether or not Ran is planning to visit. My advice to you as far as comparisons to Sand Hills are concerned is to free your mind from the desire to make such comparisons and focus on the task at hand - Winning Your First Major!

Having said that, of the handful of Doak 10's I've been fortunate to see, Sand Hills Golf Club is as deserved a recipient of this distinction as any. I hope that you'll have an opportunity to visit there one day as well.

Cheers

[Garland Bayley]

When's the last time you talked to him about it, GJ?

In the past, there have been "Bite me" threads, intended for people to get things off their chest what they would really like to write, but generally are too polite.

So in that context, I now write, "Bite me".

[Mac Plumart]

So, you never been and never talked to Ran about it...but you post on a thread concerning two courses you've never seen and speculate on the actions of someone else on a topic you've never discussed with him.

Then you tell me to bite you.

Hmmm....

Got it.

[Mark Saltzman]

Ran was ecstatic about Sand Hills. He hasn't profiled Dismal River, and doesn't have it in his next fifty. What does that tell you?

Tells me he hasn't been there.

Dismal River Nicklaus (Red?) is as polarizing a golf course as I've heard of. I really liked it and frankly can't see why some guys thing it's terrible. But, I think the fact that it has such wide ranging opinions make it more worth profiling than some courses which, while I'm sure they are very good, are in many ways more of the same.

[Rob Curtiss]

Eric,

I am not going to let anyone stop my excitement of playing Dismal- both courses..
i really cant wait to meet the guys and to have fun
Ran told me not to be effected by other peoples opinions in a negative way, and I wont.

I really dont care too much about rankings, I was am just so suprised by the difference in the rankings. All 3 courses look spectacular!!!!

I see Merion isnt on Ran's next 50...but I will let all know what I think after I play it this summer. haha

[Terry Lavin]

I've played both a handful of times and toured the Doak early during construction. Sand Hills is audacious, consistent and flawless. The Dismal Nicklaus course is fun, memorable and flawed, mainly because of too many blind shots and some holes that look forced on the landscape. But it is rocking good cartball fun.  The Doak course looks pretty perfect. I'd hang at Dismal over Sand Hills mainly because of a more relaxed vibe, but let's face it, either place is golf heaven.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I really dont care too much about rankings

I think this is the right way to look at it - I have been lucky to play some highly ranked courses that people are nearly unanimous in their opinion/acclaim for them.  At the same time, I have played lesser ranked courses that are more polarizing to people - in some ways, I have had a higher anticipation for those rounds because I wanted to see for myself what all the buzz was about.  Plus, for these courses I feel there is probably some oxygen left to add something to the debate.  For the courses in the top 10 in the world, so much has been written by people more educated/experienced than me, I am not sure what new insights and revelations I could provide to the discourse.

Regardless, both Sand Hills and Dismal look amazing and the experiences there both sound very special - enjoy your trip and I will be looking forward to your recap...

[Dan Herrmann]

The courses are all very, very good and all quite different, which is amazing considering how close they all are to each other.  

I think Sand Hillis is best right now, but once the Doak at Dismal grows in, who knows.  But, more importantly, who cares?  Each is a course you'd never get tired of playing.

To give a my word association for each:
Sand Hills - sublime world-class greatness.  By far, one of the best I've ever played.
Dismal Nicklaus - a roller-coaster of fun
Dismal Doak -  possibly perfect routing that provides everything one could want in a golf course

[Rob Curtiss]

thanks for all the positive feedback. I look forward to the experience and to make the judgement myself.

back to being excited

[Bruce Wellmon]

There is a wealth of fantastic golf in the Sand Hills and Chop Hills. From WildHorse to Ballyneal. With Sand Hills, Dismal River and the Prairie Club in between. I'm still trying to make it to all of them.

[Jason Thurman]

Bruce makes a good point. Sand Hills or not, plenty of courses within an hour or two are worth your time if you go to Dismal River. I think we woefully underrate The Prairie Club around here, and Wild Horse has to be one of the ten best values in the country. I highly recommend checking out a few other options on your trip.

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